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Building a new computer and need hardware advice 3

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MarrowGenx

MarrowGenx

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Apr 9, 2002
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I am in the process of building a new computer and I need some advice. My goal is to build a solid system for around $1,200 that will run Vista and will enable me to run MS Office and games (FPS and MMORPGs). I am looking to start from scratch and based on some articles that I have read, I have come up with the following configuration:


1. MB - ABIT IP35 Pro LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

2. CPU - Intel Core 2 Quad Q6700 Kentsfield 2.66GHz LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80562Q6700 - Retail

3. PS - PC Power & Cooling S61EPS 610W Continuous @ 40°C EPS12V Power

4. HD - 2 X Western Digital Caviar SE WD5000JBRTL 500GB 7200 RPM IDE Ultra ATA100 Hard Drive - Retail

5. Video - EVGA 512-P3-N801-AR GeForce 8800 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail

6. RAM - 2 X Crucial Ballistix 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model BL2KIT12864AA804 - Retail

7. Case - Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail

8. CPU Fan - COOLER MASTER RR-CCH-L9U1-GP 92mm Hyper TX2 CPU Cooler - Retail

9. DVD - 2 X Sony NEC Optiarc 20X DVD±R Burner Black IDE Model AD-7200A-0B - OEM

I am currently at around $1,300 (less rebates I am below my $1,200 goal) but I want to make sure these components will work well together and that there is not something better that I should be getting instead of the selected components. Thanks for your time.

Marrow
 
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2 DVD Burners? I didn't know if that was intentional or accidental.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[noevil]
Travis - Those who say it cannot be done are usually interrupted by someone else doing it; Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions;
 
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MarrowGenx

There's ALWAYS something better [smile]

As for your list I would wonder why you don't get 1066 RAM instead of 800, as the CPU supports 1066 FSB speeds. Other than that, good choices.

Tony

Users helping Users...
 
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Ok, I made some modifications based on your recomendations. I have replaced the 800 RAM with 1066 RAM and I switched one of the dvd burners to a dvd reader (although I may just change it back because it is only saving me $8).

As for the power supply, unless it will be a major problem, I may stick with the one that I have listed. To upgrade, I would need to spend another $80. I can see the benefit from changing the RAM, but do I get any benefit from changing the power supply?

I have updated the above link with the 1066 RAM and the DVD reader. Any other recommendations?

Marrow
 
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Two things that stick out:

1. You specced ATA drives instead of SATA drives. Is there a reason why? Given that the motherboard you selected supports SATA and SATA RAID, and SATA can give better performance, I see no reason to use ATA.

2. You specced 4GB of RAM, but in the form of four 1GB modules. Doing that will leave you no room to upgrade down the road without throwing out memory. Instead, look at using a pair of 2GB modules. You still get 4GB, and you'll have two slots free in case you want to go to 6GB or 8GB or RAM next year.

I have 4x1GB modules in my two of my boxes, and I sorely wish that I had gone with 2x2GB instead.

________________________________________
CompTIA A+, Network+, Server+, Security+
MCSE:Security 2003
MCITP:Enterprise Administrator
 
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Thanks to everyone who has offered suggestions. Based on kmcferrin's suggestions, I was able to save an additional $125 and it sounds like it will improve my current system design.

Questions on the SATA vs ATA:

1. What is the difference?
2. I am use to setting up ATA Hard Drives, so is SATA any different? If so, how?

Thanks again for all the help. Keep it coming.

Marrow
 
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Good catch kmcferrin. I was going to suggest going with the Seagate 7200.11 over the WD but completely missed the ATA vs. SATA part.


The 7200.11 provides a 32MB buffer compared to the WD's paltry 8MB. You'll see the difference.

MarrowGenx

SATA is the new standard interface for hard drives & optical drives, has been for quite a few years. Increased bandwidth (speed), lack of need for Master/Slave jumpers, and thinner, more airflow-friendly cables all add up to the only real choice for a modern system.

The main difference is that sometimes you need to supply SATA RAID drivers during Windows setup, but if you're running Vista they are probably already there. They are even easier to setup than ATA. Try it, you'll like it!

Tony

Users helping Users...
 
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Also, the Seagate has a 5-year warranty compared to the WD's one-year.

Tony

Users helping Users...
 
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I assumed you bought 2 drives to do raid 1 also.. if you didn't you should consider it.. raid 1 will save your butt sometimes :)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[noevil]
Travis - Those who say it cannot be done are usually interrupted by someone else doing it; Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions;
 
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this is the ram I recommend I am using now as I type and it has to be some of the most stable ram I have ever used

and its cheap

I looked at the specs for your MB and you have to use sata harddrives if you want to use the DVD burners and yes use two DVD burners...lol... I do

here is why I say Sata you only have one IDE port from the motherboard and that only supports 2 IDE devices you have 4 IDE devices specked out for the MB. Either you need to buy SATA HD or buy a bridge IDE to SATA converter this is the brand I am using right now and it works for both HD and DVD

and as for the PS if you add more drives or add a second video card you need more power as it is you are 3/4 into the load that the PS will give. you go to the bigger one you are at 1/2 the load for the current specs... the one you have specked is good for now but save for a new one later if you are going to expand.
 
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I just wanted to note OCZ support is awesome and they walked me through the setup of 4 sticks of that ram with the correct voltage and timing. I have not yet had an issue with OCZ
 
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MarrowGenx,

On the SATA vs. ATA question, just remember this:

ATA = IDE = "old and busted"
SATA = "new hotness"

ATA is pretty much a rapidly dying standard. SATA is more user friendly in that it requires less configuration headaches. With ATA you have to worry about master/slave/cable select settings, and primary and secondary channels, yadda yadda. With SATA you get a 1-to-1 connection. One SATA port can support one drive. You plug it in and go.

Not only that, but SATA drives support higher maximum throughput(more performance) than ATA drives, support some newer command features like Native Command Queueing (which can improve performance), and the newest and fastest drives being made these days are all SATA. But best of all they have these narrow little cables that don't block air flow inside the case!

________________________________________
CompTIA A+, Network+, Server+, Security+
MCSE:Security 2003
MCITP:Enterprise Administrator
 
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good point kmcferrin

I think the biggest issue is not enough IDE connections on the MB and too many IDE devices specked out

Most new MB's come with only one IDE slot nowdays
 
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Thanks for all the help so far from everyone. Ok, I have made some adjustments to my original build. Here is what I have now:

2008 Computer

1. MB - ABIT IP35 Pro LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

2. CPU - Intel Core 2 Quad Q9300 Yorkfield 2.5GHz LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80580Q9300 - Retail

3. PS - CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply - Retail

4. HD - Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD4000AAKS 400GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

5. Video - EVGA 512-P3-N801-AR GeForce 8800 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail

6. RAM - G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-8500CL5D-4GBPK - Retail

7. Case - Antec P182 Gun Metal Black 0.8mm cold rolled steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail

8. CPU Fan - Undecided. Many people have suggested heatsinks, but do I buy a fan and a heat sink or one or the other?

9. DVD - SAMSUNG 20X DVD±R DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S203B - OEM

Some new questions. First, I have not had alot of people comment on the mobo/cpu combo. Any problems there? I am not going to start out doing any overclocking, but it is a possiblility in the future. Should I spend money on Thermal Compound and/or high end heatsinks/cpu fans? If so, which do you recommend? Any new issues arise with this new configuration of components?

Thanks again to everyone who has offered suggestions. I really appreciate it.

Marrow
 
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I'm not a bit (ahem) familiar with Abit, but they do make rock-solid boards. Wait, the CPU's been switched, I would not recommend the 9300 over your first choice, as it specs lower. Here's the Penryn equivalent to your original choice:


note this is more $$$ but has more L2 cache and will outperform either previous choice.

I also don't know why you're sticking with WD for the HDD as Seagate has a better warranty and more cache (32MB vs 16).

As for fan/cooler/paste, the heatsink and fan come as a complete unit. There are a few champions: Thermalright Ultra 120:


Zalman CNPS-9700:


and my favorite, the Thermaltake V-1:


The paste that comes with the heatsink is usually fine, but there are tweakers that insist on removing the stock paste aand lapping the heatsink & CPU to make them shine, then re-applying Arctic Silver 5 paste.

I see no need for this, especially with your relative freshness. I've ALWAYS used the paste that came pre-applied to the heatsink, and have never had any problems. You might be able to pick up a few degrees by lapping and/or using Arctic Silver 5, but the risks outweigh the rewards (i/e/ damaging the CPU with aggressive lapping and handling).

You will also need case fans, blowing in at the bottom and out at the top, but these might be included with the case.

As firewolfrl said, look into replacing your IDE optical drive with a SATA version.

Finally, call me old-school, or just plain old, but I still build every PC with a floppy/card reader combo:


The card reader is always used, but if you need the floppy even ONCE during the PC's life it's paid for itself. It does come in handy. Looking good!



Tony

Users helping Users...
 
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Wahnula,

I have taken your advice on the HDD, heatsink/fan, and card reader (no floppy, because I just got my whole family to give them up and go with USB keys). Also, based on your recommendation, I changed back to my original CPU. I appreciate your advice on the new CPU, but I think that will push me a bit over my budget.

kmcferrin,

Thanks for the ATA vs SATA and RAM advice. I agree, I had some problems with my original build and I appreciate you pointing those out.

firewolfrl,

Thanks for the Power Supply, RAM, and Optical Drives advice and recommendations. Much like kmcferrin, you helped me understand and fix my issues with ATA vs. SATA.


Thanks for your help.

Here is the updated information:


Anything else that I should worry about before ordering these parts? Hopefully if everything goes right I will have this up and running in a couple of weeks. Thanks again.


Marrow
 
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The heatsink and fan come as a single assembly, so you don't need to buy them separately. Also, a retail CPU from Intel comes with a CPU fan that is engineered for the CPU, so you don't really need to buy one. If you're going to be overclocking or tweaking your PC to make it silent then there are a wide variety of options available, most of which run $20-$80. Personally, I've never replaced the stock fan that came with a retail CPU and I've had no issues.

The stock fan will usually include a thermal "pad", which is basically a thin layer of grey, putty-like material that is applied to it. This takes the replace of heatsink compound/Arctic Silver/etc. So as long as you're using the stock unit there should be no issues. If you do choose to upgrade your heatsink/fan later on down the road just be sure to remove all of the heatsink compound from the old CPU.

The mainboard looks good. The Abit IP35 line is really solid and a great performer. I know that there are some newer Intel chipsets, but unless you're aching to be on the bleeding edge there's nothing wrong with your selection. Overall I think that you have a very solid config.

The only other thing that I would think about is the memory. You list G.Skill, but your wishlist shows the OCZ Reaper memory, which has a large heatsink/heatpipe on top of the memory module. That's probably a bit of overkill unless you're planning to overclock, but you also could run into space issues depending on how big your case is. If you're going to buy the physically larger modules, make sure that you will have clearance.

________________________________________
CompTIA A+, Network+, Server+, Security+
MCSE:Security 2003
MCITP:Enterprise Administrator
 
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Just a couple of things, as you are narrowing things down nicely.

I see MUCH better economy in spending $10 to double your HDD capacity from 250 to 500GB:


Also, I would still rethink the CPU. Drop the Thermaltake fan (use the stock as kmcf recommends) and card reader, they can always be added later if immediate budget is such an issue. The Penryn is really a much newer and better CPU than the 6700, and choosing the BEST part here really delivers the best value, as you will have it for the longest time.

One note on the mainboard: if you can find one that has support for DDR3 in addition to DDR2 it will have a longer lifespan as you will be able to get another upgrade cycle out of it. I know this is time-consuming but hey, it's fun, right? It's fun for us as virtual shoppers, too.

Another thought: when you get your list finalized, run it at another shop like , my local shop that sometimes out-prices Newegg. Great support, fast shipping and an established brick-and-mortar shop to boot. Have fun!

Tony

Users helping Users...
 
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I think I am finally there. I went a bit over budget, but I got the wife to buy into the idea. I took wahnula's advice and got the larger HDD and better CPU. My only concern now is the heatsink/fan. If the stock heatsink/fan will work for a few months of non-overclocked usage, I should be fine. I will eventually open it back up and replace it.

Here is the updated information:


Thanks again for everyone's help. I could not have done it without you (well, I could have, but I would have had to return half the components because they were not compatible and I would have produced a much weaker machine).

Marrow
 
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