Bribery, Corruption, or just playing the game??

[guestgulkan]

Every now and again we hear some scandal involving some company and the passing of "inducements" to seal some iffy contract.

I remember my time as a project manager.
Contracts including laptops for "remote diagnostics and monitoring" knowing full well "remote" probably means all the way from the buyers living room.
Or "free training" - who comes on these "freebie" training sessions but the bosses, people who will be nowhere near the equipment in real life!

Bribery? Corruption? or just building good customer relations??

 

[cdogg]

sleipnir214,
There's no point in beating this one to death!
Your explanation is complete and concise.

PCLine,
From the looks of it, you and sleipnir agree on many points. Although there was a bit of a difference in whether a gratuity is always given after receiving a service, you both agree that there are "no strings attached". That's precisely what separates a gratuity from a bribe. That's all that matters.

Just about anyone here would agree that the ethicality of using bribes is questionable. However, it seems that you are trying to lump bribes and gratuities into one category, which is not possible.


~cdogg

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
- A. Einstein

 

[PCLine]

http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/g/g0238300.html

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=34261&dict=CALD

http://www.wordsmyth.net/live/home.php?script=search&matchent=gratuity&matchtype=exact

http://www.bartleby.com/61/83/G0238300.html

There are plenty more web-sites that define gratuity as a reward for a service.

All the best.

 

[manarth]

semantics to the lot of you <marc>[ul]help us help![li]please give us feedback on what works / doesn't[/li][li]not sure where to start? click here: faq581-3339[/li][/sup][/ul][/sup]

 

[sleipnir214]

PCLine:

Okay, I'll play &quot;Dueling Dictionaries&quot; with you. [Start banjo music in background]

These:

http://www.adevolution.com/ad_page.php?group_id=16&size_id=1

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=gratuity

http://www.rhymezone.com/r/rhyme.cgi?Word=gratuity

http://www.allwords.com/query.php?SearchType=3&Keyword=Gratuity&goquery=Find+it!&Language=ENG

http://www.mso.anu.edu.au/~ralph/OPTED/v003/wb1913_g.html

place no requirement that a gratuity be in return for a service, but do all state that a gratuity is given without obligation or voluntarily.


And the OED says (Sorry, but no link. The OED is available online only as a subscription service):
a gift or present, usually money, often in return for favors or services, the amount depending on the inclination of the giver.

[The OED does go on to imply that a gratuity is equivalent to a bribe, but only in the case of your giving it to a superior or a public official.]

Want the best answers? Ask the best questions:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

TANSTAAFL!

 

[TheVampire]

A previous employee where I work was responsible for office supplies, as well as other things.

He was buying supplies from a company that was giving him &quot;gifts&quot; for our business. For example, one gift was a gun case. ( they actually had a little catalog that you could pick the gift you wanted )

Problem was that the supplier was charging the company 2X to 3X what the office supplies *should* have cost.

This is why he is now a *previous* employee!

Robert

 

[sleipnir214]

Of course. I would have expected no other reaction from your company. How does that supplier get the money for the gratuities? By charging more for the supplies.

The problem is that, as in the case of your ex-coworker, gratuities end up influencing decision-making too much. In these cases the receiver of the gratuity begins to behave as if he is obligated to reciprocate.

But this is why many ethical standards require that one accept neither bribes nor gratuities. (a few picked at random from a Google search of '&quot;code of conduct&quot; bribe gratuity':

http://www.floridaconservation.org/law/generalorders/CODE_CONDUCT_ ETHICS_OATH.htm,

http://www.michigan.gov/mgcb/0,1607,7-120-1395_1466_1467-10645--,00.html,

http://www.iit.edu/departments/csep/PublicWWW/codes/coe/State_of_New_Jersey_Treasury.html)

Want the best answers? Ask the best questions:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

TANSTAAFL!

 

[PCLine]

sleipnir214,

You are using the phrase &quot;gratuity&quot; and supporting the premise that the gratuity is without strings. THEREFORE in your example;-

&quot;But if you were a server in that restaurant and two regular patrons both wanted your attention, and one tips well and the other does not, with all things being equal, which patron will you server first?&quot;

You must be trying to tell me that supposing the waiter went and served the bad tipper first that you would continue to tip that waiter. Or is it that you would pay him a bigger tip to get the &quot;no strings&quot; attention that you desire? You seem to want to engender &quot;good feelings towards yourself&quot; with these gratuities. The two examples you have given demostrate that. Both of them rely on how the receiver of the &quot;gratuity&quot; would react in a certain sitaution. Yet I would suggest that you would not give such &quot;gratuities&quot; if you knew you were not going to get the preferential treatment you wanted/expected. That is why gratuities are given as a reward for services received, you are rewarding them for treating you well. If they don't treat you well they don't get a tip. You are not going to suggest that you would tip someone who gave you bad service so that they &quot;might&quot; give you better service next time, are you?

Just as Tech Reps ply potential customers with freebies there is an unspoken agreement that when the freebie is given there is to be reciprocation OR this will be the last time they get the freebie. It is what is commonly known as &quot;you scratch my back and I will scratch yours&quot;.

As I said previously, ethically it is wrong for the company with the biggest wallet to be able to buy favours or contracts from customers. Ethically all products should be able to stand on their own two feet and be judged on price and quality. The market place already serves the best interests of the largest corporations when you look at the advantages of &quot;economy of scale&quot;.

But as I also said, the company who gives away a freebie is going to get payback somewhere along the line. Anyone who thinks that there are free meal tickets in the business world are sadly mistaken. Anyone who doesn't think that it is the consumer who pays for such extravagances (either in higher prices or higher taxes) is also sadly mistaken.

Whether the freebie forms part of the contract or not the costs must be covered - the question arises, &quot;Where do the profits come from that allow such &quot;gifts&quot; to be made?&quot;

The answer is &quot;Joe Public&quot; is financing those deals -
&quot;Business&quot; covers its costs by making us pay higher prices or the company exploits tax loopholes and we have to pay taxes that the company ought to pay.

Remember, this is about ethics not legalities. Microsoft came to a point where they were dominating the IT world through legal means yet it was the strength of the corporation that ultimately led them into conflict with ethics and the US government. After all, if good business acumen allows you to claim a monopoly over the marketplace why shouldn't you be allowed to exploit it. The answer is quite clear - it isn't ethical to allow one comany to rule the market, to dictate prices and determine which companies will thrive and which will go under.

All the best.

 

[PCLine]

sleipnir214,
My previous post was made whilst your 2 previous ones were being posted.

As cdogg said, we basically agree on the principle (maybe not the word) but we do agree.

All the best, it was a good joust.

 

[manarth]

&quot;In these cases the receiver of the gratuity begins to behave as if he is obligated to reciprocate.&quot;

I would suggest that this was not so much a feeling of obligation to reciprocate - this guy wasn't spending his money, it was the company's. So he wasn't out of pocket, although the supplies were more expensive.

It sounds like the buyer was personally incentivised by the free gifts which were specifically given to him, not the company.
A purchasing rep has a responsibility to his employers to get the best deal possible for the company - if instead he is looking to get the best freebie possible for himself, he's compromising his position of responsibility. <marc>[ul]help us help![li]please give us feedback on what works / doesn't[/li][li]not sure where to start? click here: faq581-3339[/li][/sup][/ul][/sup]

 

[guestgulkan]

I'm not sure how many of you have to make personal contact with your customers and/or suppliers as part of your job, but I estimate that gratuities/briberies play a part in 80% of all contracts negotiated.

If you deal with/travel regulary - especially to less well off countries - it is simply part and parcel of doing business.

 

[TheVampire]

Indeed. If the supplier was able to give him the gifts and charge the same price as any other supplier, then I personally would not have a problem with it.

But he really was taking money out of his pocket in a roundabout way, because the higher company overhead reduces the money that would go to employee's in profit sharing, raises, re-investment into the company, and so forth.

Now, if the gifts made up for that loss I don't know, but I think he would have rather had his job instead of the gifts.

Robert

 

[monkeylizard]

hmm....back to the cultural thing. I once worked for a firm that does a lot of importing/exporting of goods. In their employee code of conduct, bribes/gratuities/gifts etc. were strictly forbidden in the United States, but because of cultural difference, they were required and encouraged in some foreign nations (Venezuela was one if I recall correctly). The pay structure for the customs officials was actually structured with the assumption that they would be taking bribes. In that case, not giving a 'bribe' was basically taking they're paycheck away. Kind of like tipping a waiter, but it was done BEFORE the transaction of paperwork was completed. No bribe meant your cargo was going to sit in a warehouse for a good long while before it was inspected and processed. So yes, it is a cultural thing. Monkeylizard
-Isaiah 35-

 

[PCLine]

Hi monkeylizard,

Your example is a bit off the mark. In your example the Customs Guy is clearly the service provider and the &quot;Haulier&quot; is the customer. You are talking about the customer bribing the service guy. We are talking about the service guy bribing the customer

But still you don't explain how bribery can be ethical. Remember that when bribes are a &quot;required element&quot; of a structure, that the bribe taker may up the price because he doesn't like you or he may ignore it because you were in the same class at school.

Regards.