Boot-up Quirk 1

[wooglin]

Brand new box, my foray back into desktop computing after a couple years of laptop experience.
ASUS P4R800 mobo
256mbx2 Samsung DDR-400 ram
Celeron 2.66
WD 80gig HD (master)
Maxtor 120gig HG (slave)
no video card (onboard only)
new Enermax 375W PSU
CD/RW, 3.5" floppy

Problem is, that only 1 time out of 10 the system will boot when I press the power button.

The other 9 times everything will spin up, but it will never get to the point of 'Searching for' or 'Finding' IDE devices. I've updated to the most recent BIOS. The master HD is jumpered as Master. The slave drive is jumpered as cableselect.

I appreciate any suggestions that you might have
w00glin

 

[cdogg]

Well, it would "seem" like your PSU is powerful enough, but just in case try disconnecting all components from the motherboard except the HD, RAM, and CPU. It could be some other kind of conflict.

Did you check the temperature inside the box? Could have something to do with your CPU mount.


~cdogg
[tab]"All paid jobs absorb and degrade the mind";
[tab][tab]- Aristotle
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[wooglin]

Tried disconnecting the CD/RW and floppy, have not yet tried disconnecting the 2nd HD... will attempt tonight.

Case temps are fine. At full load: CPU 52, Case 38, HD's around 40. At idle, everything seems to settle around 35-40 deg.

 

[micker377]

Does the manual say the board will accept the Celeron CPU? According to the ASUS site, this is a P4 board.

 

[wooglin]

Does that not just mean it's a standard socket 478? It runs fine, superfine actually.

http://usa.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?m=P4R800-V Deluxe&langs=09

says: Socket 478 for Intel Pentium 4/ Celeron

The only problem is that the power needs to be cycled until the mobo looks for the ide devices.

I say that it works 10% of the time, pretty random. Sometimes I can hit the power for a cold start and it goes right away. Other times I need to cycle the power on and off until the boot sequence progresses.

 

[micker377]

The socket may accept the CPU, but the BIOS and Mem timing may not.

 

[wooglin]

micker377 - please see my last post.

 

[micker377]

Sorry 'bout that, the ASUS site I looked at just said P4.

Back to original problem. Have you tried "mimimal" or "safe" option in BIOS? Can you boot with just one mememory stick? Try slowing down "video acceleration".

 

[wooglin]

It's very odd... ran a memory check, tested fine. Runs with only one stick. Runs with only primary hd connected.
By runs I mean that it has the exact same behavior - random halts after the memory test. I've even updated to the most recent bios (beta) and it exhibits the same behaviour.

I don't understand what you mean about 'minimal' or 'safe' bios setting. Not an option I've seen anyway. The bios has allocated 32mb of memory to the onboard video, it cannot be set any lower. I've tried raising it to 64, but that made no difference.

 

[micker377]

What brand of BIOS are you running? "video acceleration" is set in the video drivers section. What OS are you using?

 

[wooglin]

Phoenix Bios. (Award)
XP Pro SP2
I'll give the video acceleration a shot...but would that actually affect the first 3 seconds of the boot routine? I thought it was just for Windows.

 

[wooglin]

Adjusting the video accelleration had no affect. (tried at 50% as well as turning it right off)
It has been like this since day 1, before the OS was even installed, so I want to assume it's a hardware issue, not software.

Bios and all drivers are up to date, SMART reports no errors, all heat levels are within norm, adequate power.... what am I missing?

 

[cdogg]

I agree about it being a hardware issue.

If the problem still occurs with only the primary HD, RAM, and CPU connected to the motherboard (you don't hear any beep codes), then I would suspect one of the following:

1) Bad IDE cable
[tab] (since you mention that it seems to fail right before the "Finding IDE devices..." appears).
[tab] Make sure you have an 80-wire cable and try replacing with another one.
2) Corrupted IDE controller on the motherboard
[tab] Try connecting the boot drive to the secondary IDE controller jumpered as master.
3) Faulty power supply
4) Damaged CPU or poor mount
[tab] I'd save this one for last


~cdogg
[tab]"All paid jobs absorb and degrade the mind";
[tab][tab]- Aristotle
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[wooglin]

Thanks cdogg. I'll treat that as this afternoons checklist. I appreciate all the help!

 

[PraetorianWS]

Just wanted to let you know I had this same problem with my old computer for years. Unfortunatly I never found a solution.

 

[wooglin]

2) Corrupted IDE controller on the motherboard
Try connecting the boot drive to the secondary IDE controller jumpered as master.

When you say jumpered as master, you mean the hard drive jumper, right?

What will the effect be if it runs correctly on the secondary controller? Will I be able to run the CD/RW on the primary?
Will the access times/speeds suffer?

 

[wooglin]

1) Bad IDE cable
(since you mention that it seems to fail right before the "Finding IDE devices..." appears).
Make sure you have an 80-wire cable and try replacing with another one.

It turns out that the edge wire was exposed on the ide cable, may have been in contact with the case. (it was the side of the ribbon opposite the colored (ground?) edge. Replaced with a new ide cable - still random boot issues.

2) Corrupted IDE controller on the motherboard
Try connecting the boot drive to the secondary IDE controller jumpered as master.

Secondary controller was just as random as the primary

3) Faulty power supply

Brand new Enermax 370W PSU, same issue with removed (but still new) OEM 300W PSU

4) Damaged CPU or poor mount

Saved it for last... what can/should I do, other than remove the HS, pop the chip out of the zif and reinstall it?

What continues to blow me away is the randomness. It will boot fine 2-3 times, then I'll have to play with it, turning it on and off up to 15 times until the IDE devices are found and the boot goes on... thanks alot for your time cdogg, really appreciated

 

[cdogg]

Are you sure you're testing it with only the Hard Drive connected over IDE? It sounded like from your last two posts that the CDRW and other IDE devices are still involved. Make sure this is not the case until you solve the issue. There's no need for them at the moment.

Also if the Maxtor 120GB drive is blank, I recommend taking out the 80GB drive and doing a fresh install on the 120GB drive. As for the CPU mount, as long as you're sure you used thermal grease then I'd say there's no need to take it out and re-mount just yet.

At this point, we know the issue must be one of the following:

1) RAM
2) Hard Drive
3) CPU
4) Motherboard

You could try replacing them one-by-one in that order from least to most expensive, but that's when a spare PC with a compatible motherboard comes in handy. If it's an option, try each component one at a time in a different system.

Other than that, I'm about out of ideas. Good luck!



~cdogg
[tab]"All paid jobs absorb and degrade the mind";
[tab][tab]- Aristotle
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[wooglin]

Waking up an old thread... figured out the source of my problem.

This MOBO has a bios setting for QFan Controller.
When enabled, the controller reduces the CPU Fan to a level high enough to keep the CPU below 50 degrees C.

When disabled, the fan runs at a noisy full speed, keeping the CPU temp in the high 30's to low 40's at full load.

Problem:
When the controller is enabled, the system exhibits the boot problem as described above - will only boot one time out of 10.

When the controller is disabled, the system boots fine 10 times out of 10.

Solutions? Ideas? I don't want the CPU fan running at 100% all the time because it's noisy. This is a bedroom computer running PVR software, so I use it for TV as well. Noise is the enemy. When QFan is enabled, the system is nowhere near being heat stressed.

Short of undervolting the fan and disabling QFan altogether, any other suggestions?

 

[G0AOZ]

Been following this thread for a while... Glad you've put your finger on the problem - well done!

The only solution I can offer is to keep QFan disabled and change the CPU fan for one which is quieter, or has it's own built-in thermostatic control.

ROGER.