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Boot Problem in XP...Virus, hardware failure, ?

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oldbear

Technical User
Jan 16, 2003
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Hi Everyone,

I posted a continuous booting problem on 25 Sep. I have more information and I thought it best to open a new thread. This is in a Gateway FLEXATXSTC BRO 300S. It's got a 1 GHz Celeron and a Maxtor D540x-4K 20Gig harddrive. The owner (friend) was loading games the day before the problem occurred. Her son shut the computer down normally. When my friend turned it back on, it was continuously booting. So here is what I have done so far:

I went into the bios turned off all the checks being bypassed (wanted the motherboard to perform all checks). When i rebooted, it stops immediately after the Gateway screen disappears (at the beginning) with the following message "Windows NT has found only 447K of low memory. 512K of low memory is required to run Windows NT. You may need to upgrade your computer or run a configuration program provided by the manufacturer." OK, so far so bad.

I have done the following: (1) Downloaded the latest Powermax harddrive diagnostic from Maxtor and run it on the Gateway...the harddrive passes all tests with flying colors.
(2)Put the drive in my Windows ME machine and tried to do a virus check with the latest Norton (old program with latest virus definitions) and got an error message along the lines of "a utility program is blocking access to this drive". I could not check for viruses. The drive is 100% NTFS by the way. Windows ME doesn't recognize the partition. (3) Tried two other hard drives hooked to the same ribbon cable and power connector in the Gateway. Both harddrives booted without a hitch. One only boots to a c: prompt while the other boots in Windows 98 SE. (4) I booted with a floppy drive...no problem. My first two inclinations were (a) Virus and (b) a screwed up software problem from the games. But, that doesn't answer the possible hardware problem if the error message is legitimate. So, I did a (5) I took the memory stick out of my good Windows ME computer and put it in the Gateway. Same problem shows up. I get the same error message about the memory.

So, I'm at a loss. I don't want to wipe the drive and write all 0's (low-level format option on Maxtor Diagnostics disk) unless there is something to gain. If it's a virus, that may not solve the problem. If it's a hardware problem with the cache on the harddrive, why isn't the diagnostic finding it? I can take the drive all the way down but I really hate to lose everything on it. I don't have a windows XP machine with a virus checker to run on this harddrive. Suggestions?

Thanks,

oldbear
 
Hello Everyone,

Partial Success!!! Was able to put the harddrive on a different computer and a different Win XP cd and able to boot with the CD. Repaired the boot record in the hard drive and it booted properly. This has ended the continuous booting problem I believe. Now to go home and see what the memeory thing is about.

Thanks for everyone's suggestions. Will keep you posted about the other problem

oldbear
 
What exactly did you do (for future reference)?
 
Xomcat,

Well, it appears the hard drive's boot record was toast. We booted with a Win XP CD on another computer. We used the cd's repair section to rebuild the hard drive's boot record. When we rebooted, the computer no longer "rolled" (Kept rebooting again and again). We used chkdsk /R I believe. Damaged boot record is why the hard drive was causing every computer to reboot continuously. Now I need to determine if there really is a memory problem. I still have a Gateway computer that with no hard drive attached can't boot from the CD. It gets an error message saying something about 447K low memory can't run Windows NT. I wonder if the boot record and the memory are related...you know...like the the bad memory might be the result of some kind of surge that took out the boot record at the same time....computer was turned off incorrectly...etc. Oh well. Halfway home...need some more luck.

Oldbear
 
or perhaps a memory resident virus that infects boot records, sectors, file tables and a whole host of things.........?
 
mainegeek,

don't talk like that...I need some hope..

oldbear
 
Are you going to reinstall the "fixed" HD in the Gateway with the memory glitch? - interesting experiment - keep us posted.
 
Oldbear - I am glad that you got the drive to boot... now did you do a VIRUS scan on that drive yet (before you install it on the Gateway pc)!!!

Ben
 
Ok Everyone,

Here's the final roundup. I put the original hard drive back into the Gateway and it booted properly. All problems have disappeared including the memory problems. I understand the boot being damaged and the rolling or continuos booting it caused on the 4 different computers I tried it on. However, I'm at a loss to explain the memory error message, especially when I tried to boot from the original CD. When I put the original hard drive in, I also put in the Win XP CD and it booted from the CD just like it was supposed to. Very Confusing. The only thing I can attribute this discrepancy to is the bios. I made a few changes in it in an attempt to help me out...like turning off all quick checks (made the system go through the complete process) etc. All I can say is Thank You! everyone for you patience and suggestions. I've never had a boot record damaged like that on a big drive. Sure am glad I didn't write zeros which would have solved the problem but eliminated my friend's software. By the way, I did use F8 to go back to the last good bootup. I figured after all the booting attemptds it was the best thing to do. GOBACK Software was not installed on this system.

Thanks Again,

oldbear

P.S. I could not find any RAM onboard the motherboard. All RAM was in the PC133 Sync SDRAM stick. The motherboard is one of those NLX? formats...very small and very few chips. Typical Gateway construction. Microstar MS-6312 is the model number.
 
Great Job Oldbear!! Now that you are up and running I would strongly suggest a full virus scan using updated definitions. Include any bootdisks (floppies) as well.
 
Everyone,

Virus Scan will be done. My friend will have to update her virus software first though. Damaging a boot record is not to awful common in the years I've been dabbling in computers. I'm sure it happens much more from viruses.

Thanks Again,

oldbear
 
Hi there Oldbear, glad to hear it got worked out for you and your friend...

btw - the 640kb memory is on board the mobo... it has nothing at all to do with the ram sticks... on newer boards (PII and up) it's integrated into one of the chips (mostlikely NVRAM of the CMOS) (due correct me anyone if I am wrong on this...)...

Ben
 
BadBigBen,
I think you may be confusing Nvram with Conventional Memory 640kb?

 
mainegeek - no not really... NVRAM is what it says it is NON VOLITILE MEMORY... but I've never seen a motherboard which didn't have the CONVENTIONAL MEM (512k of old and 640k P1 and up) onboard...

the old mobos had it seperately installed (between 16 and 8 chips (286 and early Pentium boards) to two chips (p1 boards) to todays boards which have them integrated into other chips...

the mobos need this RAM to function in the first place before enabling any EXTENSION RAM...

BEN

* due point it out if my assumptions are wrong...
* no one knows everything and one should be willing to learn from mistakes others and oneself makes...
 
Ben,
I started messy with PC's mostly during the 266 era. I do recall some of the older Type 1 or 2 mobo's (don't really remember) having chips on them. Either way, I guess I'm an idiot, because I always thought the first 1mb was layed out as:
512kb conventional
512 reserved..........later changing to

640 conventional
384 reserved ...........and anything extra as extended.

and derived from the fisrt 1mb of the simm.
 
I am in the same boat as mainegeek....i can remeber IBM PC, XT and 286 boards with the memory soldered or socketed into the motherboard. Even some 386's and cheap 486's were that way. Other board started coming out that had cache memory but unless you added a simm (or the older sipp) or the individual 256K or 1Meg dips, you couldn't boot. The P1's, PRos, and beyond sometimes had the cache on board and some older ones even had the little brown slot for the cache...think they were called coast or something like that....anyway...they wouldn't boot untill you added the simms (72 pin stuff). Now we have dimms/sdrams (168 pin) and no telling what else but with the exception of a few el cheapo implementations, I cannot ever remember seeing the first 640K lower memory with the other 384 upper memory for drivers and such(1st meg) come from any other place than the memory sticks you put in the slots on the motherboard. I have countless motherboard manuals and none ..even the intels do not talk of a low memory onboard. This doesn't mean it doesn't exist though.
god i feel old talking about this,

oldbear
 
I would have to agree that the conventional memory does not reside on the mainboard (anymore) but comes from the mem stick. The first 640k of memory is a limit set by Dos and no matter how much ram your system has if there is not enough free conventional memory you won't be able to run your Dos program ( at the time someone had decided that no one would ever write a program that needed more than 640k(for the executable), and it has been that way ever since)
Last system I had that had memory chips soldered to the board was a super socket7 with a AMD K62500. It had 1 meg of memory onboard but that was an external cpu cache and the conventional memory didn't come from there(at least I don't think so...). The chip went bad on me so I disabled the cache in the bios and then it booted up fine, although slower.

If you're going through Hell...keep going... (Winston Churchill)
RocKeRFelLerZ
 
Hi there gang, well I've grown up with 8088's and PET's and other CBM hardware aswell as using 286, 386, 486 mainboards (most as doorstops though) then went the otherway and invested moola for an AMIGA and MAC system (the amiga is still kicking) but cought on later (8 yrs or so ago) and went back to PC's and all the boards I had then (Pentium 1 75 to 133 mhz) had the lower 640kb on board either soldered or socketed, and some with the cache onboard or as OLDBEAR said as a sloted option... I've experimented with taking out the CHIPS on the socketed boards and noticed that the lower mem changed from 640k to 512k...

I'm not saying that what you all are saying is wrong, it may well be that the newer boards don't have any lower mem on board anymore and derive it from the DIMMS/SIMMS/DRAMS...
it just makes me curious and just plain interests me to know...

BEN
 
I meant 286 era not 266. I also messed about with 8088's but only at the user level.
 
I have a similar problem. Working on a friends system a Gateway by the way. He told me he has been having some problems, so he just wanted to upgrade to XP Pro. No big thing I have done this a few times and felt confident about it. Well he lost cd drives during boot ups and could not get it to work. Tried a lot of what was mentioned here including the low level format, and took the drive out and put it in my system and loaded XDP just fine. Everything worked, until I put the hdd back into his case. Now it wont boot up to xp, and does the continual boot thing. I am going to try and pull the bios battery out and try that. After that I am at a loss. Help

john
 
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