BICSI Manuals and TIA/EIA Standards 1

[TelNetSystems]

I am a "weekend warrior" cable installer if you will. My primary goal is providing telecommunications and computer neworking systems management to small businesses. Essentially, I have several small businesses for whom I provide the functions that would otherwise be provided by the MIS/IT employees, were they large enough to have any, such as domain regestration, website hosting, anti-virus protection, internet firewalling, data backup scheduling and verification, creation and deletion of user accounts, software upgrade and service pack installtion, telephone moves/adds/changes, telephone system programming changes, PC technical support, etc. But, people need additional jacks, old cabling has to be replaced, telephone systems are outgrown or become outdated, people move or open additional offices in places where the existing wiring is completely inadequate, and in most cases I end up doing the installation or upgrading of the telephone system and/or premise wiring. Since I am not primarily in the business of being a cable installer, and I am not a low voltage systems contractor so I have to try to keep my projects under $500 (which is almost impossible), there are limits as to how far it is practical for me to go when it comes to cable installation. Additionally, I am only breaking even right now until I can get this business off the ground and can't afford to sink a lot more money into cabling tools and materials.

That said, I refuse to accept having my work be any less professional or of any less quality than that which would be done by a quality cabling professional. I am intensely interested in learning the material contained in the BICSI publications and the TIA/EIA Telecommunications Building Wiring Standards and using it to improve the professionalism of my work. However, it would cost me over $1000 to purchase these items from BICSI. I have searched eBay for used manuals with no success, and only managed to purchase the BICSI Residential book used on Amazon.com. I simply cannot justify spending an additional $1000 on cabling books in the near future. Does anyone know how I can learn this material for less expense? Can I get used/prior versions somewhere for a nominal charge? Are there alternative publications that contain much of the same material I could obtain? My best refrence right now is Cabling: The Complete Guide to Network Wiring by David Groth.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[DToolsDesigner]

TelNet

Please e-mail me. I have all the manuals since I was a BICSI Master Instructor. I have both CD and bound versions.

Richard S. Anderson, RCDD

http://www.servamatic.net

 

[daronwilson]

You are to be commended for desiring to learn the correct methods, not many folks are interested in it. BICSI is not an inexpensive organization, so they want to recoupe their costs on materials. I have found older versions of the TDDM on ebay, but keep in mind those are going to be a bit outdated. It is copyrighted material, so use your best judgement when looking for it.

The standards are a bit of a challenge as well. The fully correct way to get them is a subscription with Global, which gets you a new CD in the mail anytime there is a change. As you probably already know, they change often.

I started out like you did, on my own doign the work untill I could make it pay well enough. I've never been shy about buying tools or references (lots invested) but it is getting more complex than it used to be. We used to do about everything with a simple VOM and a tone generator. I shudder to think of what I have in cabling tools and test equipment. My Wirescope 350 was $5k or so, TDR, OTDR, sidekick, etc. If you intend to provide professional installations, you should be testing them to the standard involved, which means somewhat expensive test gear.

It is one of our selling points actually, that we can test and service what we sell and install. If you can't do that, sooner or later than might burn you a bit. In oregon the work requires a license, an electrical permit, and an inspection. Anytime you are working in someones commericial building of course you could be liable for damage. We're required to carry a bond and insurance as well. One hole drilled in the concrete suspension floor could put an end to a small business.

So, learn what you can, get as much reference material as you can find that is accurate, plan on getting the right tools, and I would certainly consider the license/permit/liability insurance issues seriously.

Good Luck!

It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com

 

[unclekia]

You not have to spend $1000.00 to get the information you seek!!! Join BICSI for $150.00 and buy the latest and greatest 10th Edition of the TDMM for $179.00.In addition your membership provides you with the opportunity to get monthly newsletters, free technical advice, discounts on training and periodicals not to mention member discount to Global Engineering documents. Call BICSI @ 1-800-242-7405 and they will set you up. Visit the BICSI Website @

http://www.bicsi.org

and find the name of your Regional Director for additional assistance.

 

[TelNetSystems]

Approximate costs:

$150 BICSI Membership
$200 TDMM
$100 TCIM
$50 RNCM
$400 TIA/EIA Standards CD
-------------------------
$900 Residential & Commercial Basics

Add shipping, perhaps taxes, and I would say we should hit $1000. Perhaps I overestimated a little, but the basic point still stands.

 

[TelNetSystems]

Yes, the licensing issues are a huge concern for me. I generally work with small companies of 5-50 office employees, and usually only perform this work for people who have other types of long-term business relationships with me. Still, I would love to obtain a C7 Low-Voltage Systems contractor's license. I believe 4 years full-time experience at a Journeyman level is required in the state of CA for a contractor's license. I haven't figured out a way to satisfy that requirement without quitting my own small business ambitions and working for someone else for four years.

Does anyone have any helpful information in dealing with this licensing issue? Right now, I just try to keep my cabling projects small (under the $500 limit), even if it means I have to do a small, one or two wallplate job, every month or so until my client is happy. It strikes me as rediculous to operate this way, but what else can I do?

 

[buitenhek]

Without the proper training and knowledge of the recommended installation procedures, as prescribed by BICSI and 568B, you cannot compare your installation integrity to a cabling professional since you do not know all requirements. Also, you are asking to get up to speed but want to shunt the recommended California C-7 code restrictions and want to purchase the BICSI manuals, but at a bootleg level. By the way, since you are not properly licensed, the customer you are doing the cabling for will assume all insurance liability if you should fall and require hospitalization or accidentally hurt someone else.

Many of the installation procedures that the professionals follow are done when no one is looking (integrity). Based on the above activity, you may be hiding the proper procedure and by extrapolation you may possibly hide improper installation problems in order to profit from them (is this lawyer talk?).

However, your willingness to learn the correct procedures coupled with the fact you have repeat business puts you above many startup individuals. The RCDD experts at this forum who have offered their help do so because they know you may be heading into potential problems. Follow your dream and their recommendations, they have taken the time to learn the proper procedures, and paid the money to be able to signoff a cabling project that, if faulty, obligates them to financial and/or legal action.

Pet Peeve- the customer buys the best PC’s, networking equipment and software and then gets the lowest priced cabling system/install. Go figure.

 

[DToolsDesigner]

buitenhek makes some very valid points... but one that has not been mentioned, and since I was a contractor in Ca. Licensed as both an electrical and general contractor I will throw out for all who consider contracting without a license.
In California if you contract without a license, and your customer decides to not pay you...too bad, you have NO legal recourse. Legally they can hire you and refuse to pay you. Unethical, but hey, I know guys this happened to, if that’s not reason enough to rethink I don't know what is.

That being said, I don't want TelNet to think I am blasting him, just making sure eyes are wide open.

I am a very firm believer in licensing laws and the little protection they offer everyone. I have helped several companies get started and I always admonish them to follow ALL the rules.

My simple philosophy was that I want to be able to sleep soundly at night, not toss and turn worrying if I did things just good enough to get by. Always go the extra mile for your customers, it may cost more now, but I can honestly say after over 15 years of contracting, I can count the warranty service calls of my companies on one hand.

Thats all due to taking the time to learn the BEST practices and fully implementing them for my clients.

Richard S. Anderson, RCDD

http://www.servamatic.net

 

[TelNetSystems]

All very good points. I was certainly not stating that my work was directly directly the equal of that done by the professionals with years of experience on this board, and I apologize if I gave anyone that impression. Rather, I was stating that I see no reason why I should not be expected to perform work that meets the same high standards, regardless of my professional, non-profesional, licensed, or unlicensed status.

However, I also feel that perhaps I was somewhat misunderstood. I have absolutely no intention of trying to operate as if I were a licensed cable installer. The first thing I tell anyone who has work they want me to do that could come close to $500 is that I do not have a contractors license, I cannot exceed $500, and they should hire a professional contractor if that is what they need. I install and maintain telephone systems and computer networks, not cabling plants. But I also cannot put a networked computer or a telephone somewhere the client doesn't have a jack. Should everyone who needs a wallplate with a telephone and network jack installed fifty feet from the wiring closet call a licensed contractor with a RCDD certification to do the job? Would you even want to go out and spend all day bidding jobs to come out and install one or two telephone jacks? Lets see... drive to the person's location, spend an hour discussing their needs, compose and submit an estimate, load up a small mountain of expensive installation tools and testing equipment, spend two hours unloading, installing, labeling, testing, documenting, and reloading, go home, unload, prepare a bill, and get paid $50 for materials and $70 for your time! I don't make money doing this... any profit I make above my expenses is invested in cable analyzers, longitudinal balance stress-testers, and the like in order to provide a better service.

I am not entirely unfamilliar with standard installation procedures, the requirements of 568B, 606A, and other applicable standards. However, my knowledge has been limited to publications ABOUT those standards, and not the actual standards themselves. As everyone knows, there is no substitute for working directly from the source. The Readers Digest condensed version gives you 80% of the gist of the book, but you just can't get the other 20% without diving into the unedited version. As for "bootleg level" BICSI manuals, I am not aware that used bookstores and private sellers were engaging in "bootleg" trade... it is perfectly legal, ethical, and acceptable to sell a used book. I assume people are not willing to sell their new Version 10 TDMMs, but people surely have prior versions they no longer use. Why would it be "bootleg" to buy one? Are they licensed like software, and you give up the rights to your prior book when you upgrade to a new one?

I'm not trying to "shortcut" the licensing process... but I also see no light at the end of the tunnel in that respect. The only thing I see in my future is being the networking guy who has also invested $12,000 in specialty cabling tools, read all the relevant standards from cover to cover, studied all the BICSI manuals, installed here and there for years, and can't do anything bigger than a phone jack or two. Yes, I would LIKE to be able to use all my accumulated tools, knowledge, and experience to do something larger some day... but I don't see how I ever can. That was the source of my question about licensing issues. What does someone like that do? All the licensed contractors I have asked say pretty much the same thing... "lie about your expeience... that's what everyone else does and nobody checks anyway." Well, fine, but I'm not going to do that. But perhaps there is a way to achieve what I want legitimately. Part time employee on the weekends for a licensed person? Certifications for credit in lieu of experience? Something?

Without some forseeable method of ever recovering any of my investment in time and materials into this, I have to impose some limits and rationality on how much I invest in this. I'm extremely tempted to spend $1000 on cabling books for the fun of it... but that would be a horrible business decision and a very expensive hobby. Perhaps I was wrong to ask the questions I did. I am just a little frustrated, wanting to learn about this, but feeling out of place in an world that charges for knowledge in the expectation that you will use it to make a profit.

Maybe I am wrong here. Should I put away my tools for good?

 

[TelNetSystems]

I suppose I should also clarify that much of my learning work comes from the office buldings and residences my father owns or owned and on which I have worked with him as owner/builders or owner/remodelers. Most recently, my father and I just completed a project that involved installing two runs of 2" conduit, each 1200 feet long and four feet deep, with concrete Christy boxes for pulling stations, in order to deliver telephone and CableTV service to their newest property. Our project to bring 400 Amp, 240V, 3 Phase, 4 Wire Delta electrical service 600 additional feet into their property is just getting started. So, I get to do a lot of things I would NEVER be able to do under any other circumstances. Working on one of his projects, I can get more experience by re-wiring a small office building than I could otherwise get in years.

 

[TelNetSystems]

Here is a summary of my last day's cabling work:

I have a customer who had me upgrade a Partner ACS to a Merlin Magix. They have a part-time computer programmer on staff who will install any cable for them that I am unable to install because of the $500 limit on the work I can do. This guy installs Cat5e by stripping the sheath back 8"-12", untwisting the pairs for 6", punching the wires down with a plastic tool that was included with the jacks, and leaves 2" of wire sticking out the sides of the jacks because his tool doesn't have a cutting blade. He also runs indoor cable through underground inter-building conduits and installs exterior aerial cables without any primary or secondary protection and no grounding.

Anyway, one of their buildings has 8 existing 8P8C phone jacks. The customer wanted 2 additional phone jacks installed. and 10BaseT network jacks installed at four of the existing locations. When I went to install the telephones at the existing jacks, I found some of them wired 568A, some 568B, and some USOC, and all terminated with extreme incompetence. I reterminated the wiring at all the existing locations using 568A, proper termination techniques, and professional grade termination tools. I installed the two new telephone wallplates using two Category 5e cables and Levition 5e jacks each. I then installed the four new LAN wiring runs the customer wanted, and since I was pulling cable anyway, I went ahead and installed LAN wiring to the other four existing wallplates because you never know when those employees may want a computer as well. I tested everything (new and existing) to Category 5 (the best my analyzer will do) with a Fluke DSP-100. Finally, I labeled all the wires and jacks at both ends using 606A compliant lables.

Total billing PARTS AND LABOR for all this:

No Charge : Re-terminate 8 existing jacks
$120 : Install 2 new wallplates w/ tel & lan
$120 : Install lan jacks at 4 exist. wallplates
No Charge : Install lan jacks at 4 exist. wallplates
----------
$240 : Materials and Labor

I had other wiring issues to fix as well, and the total cabling bill could not exceed $500. So, there you have it. I couldn't fix the problem of the aerial cable coming into the building lacking primary protectors because the parts alone would have cost $300.

For those who have expressed concern about the licensing issues, as long as I keep my billings below the legal limit I should be okay with the contractors license board, right? If a month or two later this client wanted me to come out an add primary protection to the interbuildig cables for less than $500, that would be okay as well wouldn't it? If I don't understand this correctly, I really need to have someone set me straight right away.

 

[skip555]

why dont you just get a license and not worry about the dollar limitation ?

do you have insurance coverage ?

 

[TelNetSystems]

>> why dont you just get a license and not worry about the dollar limitation ?

Because, as I said earlier, it is my understanding that the State of CA requires four years documented experience at a journeyman level in order to apply for a license, and I am not aware of any way I can satisfy that requirement unless I quit my telecommunicaitons and computer networking business and go to work for someone else as a cabling installer. Admittedly, there may be another way satisfy this requirement, but if there is then I don't know what it is.

As for insurance, I am still working on getting this business officially off the ground and am in the process of getting myself a policy. Actually, that is something I _CAN_ do legally since I happen to have a valid California State insurance license. Anybody want to trade? Property & Casualty AND Life & Health licenses for one C7 license?

 

[daronwilson]

Well let me just say this about that.

Licensing - there is a reason for it, and you may not agree with it, but it's there. Sure you can skirt it by keeping your costs down, but you are still liable for the work. While it would be great to be able to do plumbing or high voltage electrical or even be a nurse without going through that pesky license business...that just isnt the way it works. In fact, most of it came about to prevent exactly what you are trying to do. I'm sure you understand how it work, and clearly you just don't want to participate in that manner. Hundreds and probably thousands of people have gone into an apprenticeship program and got their license after years of training and work. If you choose not to, thats fine, but don't blame the license. It is YOUR choice to participate or not.

Now, should every business customer that needs a 50' drop added call a licensed contractor? Uh..that is the requirement in Oregon. We do lots of them, we do them for a flat rate generally or if I haven't seen the building I may go look at it. We are required to pull a minor label permit for the small work, which doesn't require an inspection by the state to complete. However, the inspector may show up at any time to spot check your work. Larger jobs require a full permit and inspection prior to cover and a final inspection.

On a personal note, I've spend a considerable amount of money and time gathering knowledge and certification where needed to do what I do. It isn't cheap, it isn't all particularly easy, and after 15+ years I'm still taking classes and still learning. It's my livelyhood, it's 11 pm and I'm still reading posts here and finishing up the days emails. I guess, I'd say if you want to do this work then grab a mit and get in the game; sign up with a cabling company and spend a few years learning how to do this work. If you want to do this on the side, without the licenses, then pick up the books and go for it.

Good Luck!

It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com

 

[TelNetSystems]

>> Now, should every business customer that needs a 50'
>> drop added call a licensed contractor? Uh..that is the >> requirement in Oregon. We do lots of them, we do them >> for a flat rate generally or if I haven't seen the
>> building I may go look at it. We are required to pull a
>> minor label permit for the small work, which doesn't
>> require an inspection by the state to complete.

Wow. Well, I respect that with your training and experience levels you certainly have a more informed perspective than I. It gives me a lot to think about.

Thank you all for the input.

 

[buitenhek]

Dear TelnetSystems,

Your work example(s), questions and the expert's inputs puts you way ahead. Some of the answers are also indended for other people in your or similar positions. The professional (prudent) thing to do is inform you (others) that it takes following the "yellow-brick-road" to get to your desired location.

It is people like you that find another way, form hugh successful companies, and make millions of dinero.

Best of Luck.

 

[PhoneGuy2000]

Suggestion/Question

In CA can you create a scenario where you would work on a cabling job under another contractor as either a sub or an employee to get the experience while doing the jobs for your clients and either pay the contractor a fee/commission to work under his liscence and have him inspect your work? I'm not sure if I said that right but I hope you got the gist of it. In TX we are not required to have a liscence. In an area like ours, it is important to have manufacturer training and certifications to help keep the level of performance up.

good luck, and I suggest you start with the TDMM. Its light reading (HAHA).

 

[Jtodd]

DtoolDesigner:

Regarding you first response to this thread, how to contact you?

Justin T. Clausen
Physical Layer Implementation
California State University, Monterey Bay

 

[Servamatic]

JTodd

You can contact me through my web site below.
I use to use the handle DToolsDesigner.

Richard S. Anderson, RCDD

http://www.servamatic.net

 

[3rc]

I have 20 years experience in this business and have worked on several big projects ranging from very small to 600 data connections and 1500 phone users, both inside and outside plant, Some of the lousiest jobs I have ever seen have been preformed by the largest companies here in Texas,it's like have the credintials and that's all it takes, give me a TECH who Cares anyday! electrical contractors in Texas Installing Data & phone Cables Get away with Murder. I have posted some helpful hints on this site ,and Through the responses I got,and the experience I have,has shown me a lot more theory than Good practical standards .For instance stripping the cable sheath and using the pull string to strip the sheath back to avoid Shiners, If you have a flat cutting edge stripping the sheath you are going to get some shiners ,Why not strip the sheath and use the string for a fool proof method,I have used several strippers and yet to find the one to give me that standard everytime, I know I will have a barage of strpper suggestions, but I opt for the tried and true.