Beldin Horrors!

[djtt]

I just worked on a small project ( thank goodness ) that used a Beldin CAT-6 that was a flat cable instead of the usual round cable. It was then terminated on some funky Panduit connectors. I had to spend about 10 mins. on each termination at both ends.

This Beldin twisted pair had each pair bonded together and had to be split at the ends with a special tool then inserted into this Panduit plug. Most of the times the special tool failed to split the cable pair casing and the copper was exposed.

I tried to see if there was an instructional video on Panduit or Beldin to make this go faster but I could not find one.

Has anyone worked with these products?

 

[buitenhek]

I am guessing you are a telephone guy? No disrespect intended djtt.

Belden is great data cable for top notch networks and has been around for ~10 years. Unlike standard CAT-rated UTP cable: its heavy, difficult to work with, requires special bend radius & conduit fill formulas and usually needs training to do it right. But once it is in, it is LAN bulletproof (figure of speech).

Belden used to use only certified installers in order to get their lifetime warranty. Does anyone know if this is still true?

Regards
Peter Buitenhek
ProfitDeveloper.com

"Never settle for a job well done...always look for cost cutting measures

 

[oldtimerbob]

I have worked with the Belden bonded pair cable on a few jobs,when the client's insist on using it. It is a very good cable and normally test out with a good headroom margin. The last job I did using it was about 400 cables.


Being certified on Krone,Belden,Amp,Panduit and Leviton and having done several installs of each,I have found that some just take additional time and always put into my bids what it will acutually take to get the job done.

It is not true that you have to be only a certified installer to give a 20 year warranty(often called a lifetime), in order to give that you must use the suggested patch panels and jacks and registar the job with the maker of the panels/jacks that the Belden cable is authorized to be used with AND be certified on that product.

For instance:
If you are using Panduit jacks,you have to use Panduit panels and the cable has to be on their list of approved cable. These are the people that will give you the classes in order to become certified.


I agree the the tool is hard to use, unless you work with the bonded cable often,so many techs just use the part that flattens the pair out enough to get their snips to start the seperation of the pairs.
You will also want to look at using the boxes of cable and get the type NOT on the reel, unless you can dedicate at least one tech to 'feeding' the cable out of the reels in order to keep the 'stress' down.

Anyway,it seems you got the job done and the client is happy(which is the bottom line after all).




Has been in the cabling business for about twenty years and is now the Sr PM for a cabling company located in the Los Angeles area.

http://www.globusinc.net

Also a General Class Amatuer Radio Operator.

 

[djtt]

Yes, thanks. The reel was a pain. I will work with this product again but I will also add additional charges for the extra time needed.

Thanks!

 

[acableconnection]

Using snips to separate the pairs is usually faster than that tool. also, some of those panduit jacks, if you have to insert the pairs like a mod plug, the trick is to cut the wires on a 45 degree angle, and then insert

 

[djtt]

I tried snips but I kept stripping them. I am working with another 16 run on this same project so I will have some more time to practice.

 

[koberlin1]

djtt,

I too am running into issues separating the bonded pairs. Were you able to come up with an effective technique using Belden's debonding tool? I have been attempting to debond for a few hours now and about 85% of the time the insulation gets stripped.

I have already run around 16 data runs of Belden's 1700A DataTwist 5e on a current project so need to figure this out so i can terminate the runs properly.

Thanks for any helpful hints!

 

[wires]

I use a small razor knife to start the split then pull the bonded pair apart. It helps to untwist the pair to where you are going to end the split first.

Back in my Home Automation days I ran hundreds of runs of Belden mediatwist terminated with Panduit jacks or plugs. Never took more than 3 minutes a termination.

 

[djtt]

The special little tool worked some times but most of the time it messed and I got the same results as when I first tired it manually.

What happened is that after working with so many pairs over time I got a feel for the product and was able to use my wire cutters to snip them apart.

I will tel you that I charged the customer on this second service twice as much due to the extra time needed to deal with all aspect of this cable from ordering, shipping, handling ( it is VERY heavy for 1,000 feet of cable ) does not feed out of the box without a lot of labor. Also, fishing this stuff thru conduit is a hole other issue and on and on.

I felt justified in the additional charges due to all the additional time and labor that I had to spend with this product. The client insisted on using it so it was their choice.

I will say for the product there was NO bleed of signal when I was toning the pairs and I was impressed with how well the signal is isolated to each pair.

 

[djtt]

Oh yes, I did get the hang of using a small rounded phillips screw driver to untist each pair. My only concern was damage to the copper inside. I believe that as far a pulling thru conduit it is rated at about 25 lbs. be carful not to damage it.

Very strange that the casing is flat and almost like Rolmex electrical.

 

[koberlin1]

Thanks wires. I have been at it all day and have figured out how to do it with Belden's debonding tool. I tried the razor route you mentioned and could not consistently get the pairs debonded/split far enough to have enough of each indiv. wire to pull apart b/t my index fingers and thumbs. You must have some strong fingers there ( ;

I was not clocking myself but am not getting it completed in 3 minutes. Perhaps with hundreds under my belt I will reach that back-breaking speed.

So you do not do home automation anymore?

 

[djtt]

BTW at the end of the day my fingers were killing me. Very Raw. If I have to work with this again I am going to call Beldin and see if they have a better method or any tricks they suggest.

 

[wires]

So you do not do home automation anymore?"

I usually do one house a year to keep in practice. Mostly just structured wiring and distributed audio. Sometimes IR repeaters and universal remotes programed with JP1 software. I can get 80% of the bang of the big controller systems I used to do for less than 40% of the price... The trick is careful selection of the components.


"BTW at the end of the day my fingers were killing me."

You might want to split further down the pair with the little razor knife. A small pair of needlenose pliers or hemostats can help to pull the split open.

The knife I usually use is a Stanley 10-150 Quick-Point Knife like this:

http://www.brandtoolsonline.com/10-150.html

 

[Lostpbx]

To save your fingers try using Batting gloves or golfing gloves, it may look funny but it helps.

 

[koberlin1]

wires, thanks for the link. I was able to terminate/punchdown a few dozen runs yesterday at a 100% success rate! I am just getting into home automation myself...have been distributing audio and doing home theaters for a while now and thought automation would be a great option to add to my arsenal.

lostpbx, good call! My thumbs and fingers are raw today.

 

[baspinall]

I thought that cable was discontinued years ago? Last time I used it was about 6-7 years ago.

 

[RikRodgers]

True.

Belden and Panduit had a partneship about 7 years ago, that was a precursor to the now standardized cat6. The relationship was more political / sales, than anything technical. Together, they rated their cable higher than anything available at the time.

We never jumped on board, and I'm glad we didn't. Panduit jacks still don't follow the standard 568 code for terminations, and though we still use Belden cable, that flatwire was tough to work with.

Any standard cat 5e solution, or a newer cat 6 is better for the customer. Offer the customer your own 25 year warranty.

If the run certifies good at the time of install, it won't go bad unless someone screws with it.

 

[wires]

Panduit jacks still don't follow the standard 568 code for terminations"

Let's see some facts for this statement. Cite something...

 

[koberlin1]

I figured once these runs are installed than no problems. However, there are some runs under the house and through the attic, two places which will be revisited by the electrician as well as myself when the second phase of this particular homes remodel begins. Therefor I will verify all the runs are still 100% AFTER that phase finishes. Still loving the bonded pair cables...although they can be rough on the fingers after doing a few.

I use Paladin termination for everything. I see running CAT6 as a waste of money and time as most residential installations do not employ any technologies that require the bandwidth/speed cat6 specs out to. As far as I can tell, today's residential high speed audio/video data transfer, for HD/SD distribution, rarely pushes even CAT5 bandwidth specs.