BE 8.0 Backup complete - loading media 1

[truffles]

Hi All,
I have BE 8.0 on W2000 server platform that has been performing more or less perfectly for a year or so but now I have the following problem. Although the times and backup size etc are correct and everything seems to have backed up OK, the job monitor says 'loading media' or similar. I have to abort the job. On examining the log file everything seems Ok, it ends with
Media mount failed.
User aborted a physical volume library operation.
backup completed date - time etc.
I have checked the backup by performing a dummy restore and files created that day have been backed up. I do a complete backup of everything every day onto an HP DAT40 that is currently backing up about 25GB of data on a 40GB tape. This problem started as intermitant but now happens every day.
Any suggestions?
Regards to all,
Tim.

 

[Raid5]

Someone might have turned off hardware compression on the backup jobs. Check the general tab in your job setup tab and verify that hardware compression is turned on.

 

[ChoppinBilly]

Compression is still turned on (Hardware first, then software), but most importantly it is asking for a new tape after saving 17GB. The media is 33Gb uncompressed and 66 compressed. So even without any compression I should be able to get another 16GB on the tape. Very confounding problem.

 

[UTTech]

Same problem here. Any solutions??

 

[maxTriac]

Well, I am no data expert, but I ran into the same issue, but the problem really is not with the equipment, it is most probably just the data type being backed up. The reason compression is not absolute is that some data will not compress as well as others.

In this case, the data that changed may have been more image-related data which will not compress and therefore take more space on the tape. Thus, the change in the amount of data being backed up. When once it may have backed up 25GB with no problem, it now has to go to a second tape due to different data.

Here is an excerpt from Veritas' KB:

"This is due to the varied types of data that are found in most environments. Each data type has its own compression ratio, and, therefore, there is no standard achievable for the total compression ratio that results. For example, database data, executables, and graphics files generally compress the least, and regular text and data files will compress the most."

Unless you monitor each piece of data being deleted and added on your particular server, I doubt it would be accurate to say nothing has really changed. I find it is just estimation in most cases.

I've even checked the server to find out how much data it says is on each partition being backed up, but even that is not accurate.

 

[ChoppinBilly]

Thanks, and I absolutely 100% agree with everyone in the world that you may not get any compression. And compression would have been an issue with Truffles, but I am only able to backup 17GB on a 33GB UNCOMPRESSED tape. The tape is 66GB compressed. I only want to backup 25 GB on a 33GB UNCOMPRESSED tape. I don't want to go one megabyte over the 33GB guaranteed capacity. Compression does not come into play here at all. It worked for a year, but now prompts for a new tape at 17GB. This is true on erased tapes, old tapes, new tapes, every tape. The job description has not changed. It is still set to overwrite, not append.

 

[maxTriac]

ChoppinBilly,

After reading more into the posts, I will have to retract my statement. I would not rule out tape hardware problems. I did have a tape drive that only wanted to back up 4GB on a 40/80GB tape machine. Replaced it and started backing up properly. This was a bit more extreme and more obvious, but it may be the answer.

Good Luck!

 

[ChoppinBilly]

Thanks, I think you may be right. I have another server with the same tape drive. I think I will swap them and see if the problem follows the hardware. Thanks again.

 

[Theyzest1]

I am having the same type problem. My daily backup is 27GB, I am using a 100/200 tape compression on, append is set to infinite, overwrite protection is set to none. I am using 10 tapes in a 2 week rotation. The job was working fine until a couple weeks ago. The tapes are only a couple months old. I have cleaned the drive. Problem happenes about 2 or 3 time a week.

 

[SQLBill]

Thyzest1,

Where do you show OVERWRITE set to NONE? Go to the Media Set tab, right click on the Media Set you are using and select Properties. The overwrite box shows that if it is set to NONE then Overwrite is NOT allowed.

Check your tapes, I'll guess that you aren't overwriting any of them and are only appending to them. If so, you are running out of space on the tapes.

-SQLBill

 

[ChoppinBilly]

I replaced my tape drive with an identical one and my backups could again save 33GB+ every night on a 33/66 tape.

Having Overwrite Protection set to NONE means that you can immediately overwrite a tape. The other option would be to define how long a tape has to sit after being wrote too before it can be overwrote. It does not mean that you cannot overwrite it. This is in the Media properties.

You define whether you want to append or overwrite during a backup in the Job Definition Properties. If this is set to overwrite and overwrite protection is set to NONE, you will always overwrite what is on the tape and never append. That sounds like what TheyZest1 is doing.

I had the same problem, every tech support and forum I went to told me over and over that it was a compression or append issue even though I wasn't even backing up the guaranteed amount on the tape and I had been running the same job for a year without changing any parameters. Replacing the tape drive took care of it. Fortunately I was able to swap it with a location that only backs up a couple of GBs daily so the problem isn't a problem there.

 

[GEDant]

I have just started to have this same problem after a year of perfect back-ups, i have a 12gb tape which should compress to 24gb or thereabouts,and when it gets to 14gb asks for new media.
However, i recall a conversation with the techy who installed the back up machine, and he told me to make use of the cleaning tape whenever the machine requested it. if you did not then the read write heads could go out of alingnment and this could affect performance.
I am about to use a new set of media to see if this helps.
If not i will try another machine.

 

[LawnBoy]

After extensive conversations with Veritas regarding similar problems, I had an actual (gasp) 'engineer' tell me that Win2K Server has been known to need to have the tape deck drivers reloaded. He told me that sometimes the system would work for many months and suddenly start spitting out half-loaded tapes.

He also told me to make sure I was NOT running MS supplied drivers for the deck, to use only manuf. drivers.

It fixed my problems...

 

[elmurado]

I'm getting same problem--the HP tape drive spits out the tape at 16-17GB but doesn't ask for another--the job remains active and it says loading media. At most we can only get 23 Gb on a 20/40gb tape.

How did you reload drivers for the tape drive LawnBoy?
Also my jobs are set to overwrite always. We're running NT4.0 and not win2k tho.
Does the firmware have any bearing on this too?

 

[LawnBoy]

In W2K, I did it through Device Manager. In NT4, go Control Panel->Tape Devices, drivers tab. Remove the driver, then add it back again.

 

[jjeffm]

Don't forget that a tape drive is like a server, they need a good reboot sometimes. i have had wierd backup problems in the past, and you'd be surprized how many get fixed with that. 'Cause ain't nobody here going to buy me a new one!! We've had our quantum serviced for tape alignment problems before too. Tip #2 don't store tapes by your servers.. to many magnets, and it screws up the headers.
Good luck..

 

[blonde]

Another thing you may want to check, is in the job set-up properties. under General tab. Make sure under the Compression type: you have Hardware(if available, otherwise none) in the box.

This helps with the compression as well. On one of my jobs, I did not have this, and on that week, the job always ran over to another tape. the you then put in the drive, and do the import command..

let us know if this helps !
Blonde

 

[elmurado]

tHanks guys--what it turned out to be was that the drives had too much data on them. taking them backe below 23 g did the trick. tHanks for the tips though--will keep them in mind. I'M GOING TO RUN SOME OF THE Hp DIAGNOSTICS TOOLS TOO TO SEE HOW THEY GO.
ThNAKS

 

[Cap21]

Hello,
I read the whole thread. I am a pro (MCSE - ASE/HP engineer)
I worked for a hardware service provider for more than 3 years. I noticed that many customers do not know the following about DAT drives. A DAT tap may NOT be oerwritten more than 50 times ! Ths is Mfg-speciofication ! The funny thing is that with arcserve under novell you can actually see correct values about the errors the tape unit generated. In other OS-es I have yet to see an accurate drive statistics-report. Anyway --> 5 tapes * 50 = ~50 times/per year overwrite. Disgard the tape.
Clean once a weak with aforementioned Backup schedule.

Good Luck

 

[truffles]

Hello CAP21 and others,
Your comments are noted. As a fully doodah'd HP engineer, perhaps you could explain for all...
How much data can a HP Surestore DAT40 drive put onto an HP C5718A DDS-4 40GB tape?
Just what happens when you exceed the 50 times use for a tape? Does it suddenly fall over the edge or do you notice that its storage capacity slowly gets worse?
I personally have been backing up to these tapes for some time (Not 50* on each yet) and do not know how much data they could hold originally but as the system data that required backup increased, I now notice that anything above 25,704,916,404 bytes requires a second tape. The program Backup Exec does not tell me this, the job status say's LOADING, the first tape has been ejected and it sits there grinning at me like I've got a crystal ball and know exactly what it wants. I use compression 'Hardware if available otherwise software' setting, 'Fully overwrite media" and clean the drive at regular intervals. The original data is about 90% uncompressed (a few ZIP files but otherwise Word docs and Autocad DWG files) and totals about 27GB. I presume the original data will compress about 50% as most of it is white space in Autocad DWG files but compression does not seem to be happening and I cant go much above 25GB before problems occur. There has been all sorts of info given by many in this forum most very helpfull but nobody has fully answered the above.
System on server is Windows 2000 pro server edition. Backup Exec is Version 8.0 Server Edition.
Any answers to the above or any info would be greatly apreciated.
Best Regards

 

[Cap21]

Hello truffels & others,

It is very dificult to say how much exactly goes onto a DAT tape. I must say I am looking into BE as a freshman as I hav virtually only exp. with arcserve. I do agree that I am not very fond of the way BE handles the request for a second tape. It took me a few minutes to figure out what was happening. Under Novell with compression enabled on the filesystem there is no way of telling if the data is going to fit onto the tape. In marginal situations I switched off compression on the server. Before backing up the files are decompressed and then recompressed by the drive with an other compression algorithm then novell uses. Same goes for compressed NTFS file-systems.
Normally I estimate a ratio of 1.3:1. --> i.e. 20Gb native = 25~27Gb compressed.
By the way : I am not even clear about the reported data. Is this what is actually written to tape or is this filesize on disks to be backup. I put the question to Veritas today. See what gives.
DAT-tapes : usually there is a quite rapid decay.At end of lifespan of tape there is a sort of drop off. Beware, as the coating of the tape gives way and actually mechanically pollutes the drive. You have to clean more and more often. This is very bad and usually results in a very quick and unexpected failure of the drive. DAT drives do not like abuse in this way at all.

Good luck (cannot always answer this quickly but will try).
cap21