Bad DSL modem or bad ISP?

[specter333]

First, I hope this is the correct forum for this type of post. If not please let me know and I'll move it.

Question, how do I tell if my internet connection problem is with my DSL modem or my ISP? I have reasons to suspect either or both although my suspicions are more toward the ISP.

ISP - I've had "Fastlink" DSL 768 kbps service through my phone company for around 8 years and have always been pleased with it. My suspicions of it stems from recently changing my phone connection from a business line to a home line around the time the problems started. At the time they wanted me to purchase a new modem but mine was working fine.

DSL modem - My suspicions for it come from the fact that it is about 8 years old and finding that the modem, which is located in another room that I rarely go into, was in a spot behind two desk that my brother and sister-in-laws cats decided to use as their litter box. Ugly mess but the modem seemed to miss most of it.

The symptoms -

1 -Widely varied connection speeds from not being able to get on the internet at all to over 700mbs (or whatever those three letters are suppose to be) download speed. My speed was always pretty constant before. I have never been able to link the slow down to a busy period until today, Saturday. All afternoon and evening I had little or no internet connection,this was the worst it has ever been and I was trying to bid on Ebay stuff. But I have had slow periods before late at night or early-early morning.

2 - Can not stream videos or do large downloads. I have been watching movies over the internet ever since my first broadband connection, Movieflix.com as well as others including some of the winamp NSV tv stations that have been popping up. Now every few minutes the playback just stops, tries to buffer but never restarts. If I try to download anything more that a mb or so most downloads just stop and never finish. And now it's getting to the point that if a web page is very large it will never completely load. This seems to be the case no matter what time of day or even if I time them to start at night.

3 - Annoying Microsoft balloon constantly pops up saying "Network Cable is Unplugged". then goes right away. Does this if I'm on the internet or not. This varies from a pop up every 2 to 3 seconds to only once or twice an hour. The more pop ups the slower the connection speed.

So as you can see I have issues that could be caused by either factor. They started about three months ago and they are progressively getting worse.

I've used two computers one with XP home and one with Pro. The Home system, which I'm using now, has an integrated 10/100 port, 2.4gig, 512k Dell system. The Pro is also Dell and about the same features except a network card. If I could get Belarc to work I'd give you more info. If it's needed I can post it later. The modem is a Paradym MVL and was very expensive ($325) when I first got it, I'd hate to have to replace it if it's not the problem.

I am extremely vigilant about virus and spyware protection. I am sure that's not a factor.

As I said earlier the problem got so bad today that I wasn't able to access the internet most of the afternoon or evening. Most of the time I could get to my start (Google) page but it would move sllloo

http://wwwlllyyy

going to other pages and sometimes I couldn't even get Google to come up.

Just now the speed results I started from the "Internet Speed Test v1.3" program, that I started about 20 minutes ago and closed because it didn't seem to be doing anything, popped up with the result "Your current download speed is: -4.14kbps - which means you can download at -0.52 KB/sec from our servers." Yes that is a negative sign in front of the reading.

My ISP's help desk only operates during normal business hours so I can't call them until Monday while I'm at work, away from the computers. I'd like to be able to find out before calling if it is my modem or not because I know they are going to tell me that I need to buy a new one from them. If it turns out to be the ISP I'm going to drop them like a hot potato. I don't care if they do have me on a contract, I'm not paying for this kind of service.

Any advice? Thanks for your input. Rich

 

[stduc]

I think that before you blame your ISP you have to check all connections for corrosion & get a new modem/router.

The "Annoying Microsoft Balloon" (your words) implies your PC is loosing connection to the modem/router & is nothing to do with your ISP. From your description of the cats behaviour I conclude the connection between the cable & the modem/router is corroded. You may be able to clean it up - but I think a new modem/router & cable are required. Can you borrow one?

Also check the connection between the modem/router & your wall socket. If that is corroded you will need to get the wall socket renewed.

If after trying a new modem/router, cables & wall socket you still get a bad connection - then contact your ISP.


[navy]When I married "Miss Right" I didn't realise her first name was 'always'. LOL[/navy]

 

[edfair]

It sounds like you have 2 problems. The unplugged network cable indicates a network interface device going bad, either in the modem or in your computer and since it is with 2 computers the problem points to the modem. And this may be causing the other problem, or part, or possibly none.
Moving the modem around during the cleanup meant you moved the satin. That may have affected how the signal picks up interference.

It is uncanny how your description parallels one that I fought with a Xyzel attached to Earthlink over Bellsouth copper. The modem NIC was intermittently going away and indicating it as it happened.
I had the satin split to jumper a 2 line RJ11 into 2 single line jacks then back to a 2 line jack. When I replaced the Xyzel I also moved the satin to eliminate the "rat's nest of cabling behind the computer" and the replacement Xyzel quit working. Replacing the 6 foot satin between the wall and the split with 4 foot brought it back but a 2 line splitter and 2 feet of satin for the modem was the ultimate answer.


Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[G0AOZ]

I agree with stduc. Try a modem/router which can display DS Margin and Loop Attenuation figures - these will tell you what's going on with the line.

I assume the U.S. system will be similar to that here in the U.K., i.e. telephone handsets, fax machines etc., all require in-line filters to block the ADSL signal.

Take router signal readings as is, then disconnect all other telephone line equipment in the premises and note any changes in signal levels. Move router telephone connection to Master socket, and if possible disconnect all extension wiring. If the signal is still poor at this point, then this suggests you have an external problem which is probably the responsibility of your Telco.

ROGER - G0AOZ.

 

[specter333]

Thanks for the advice. There are a few terms used above that I don't understand such as "Satin" and "DS Margin and Loop Attenuation figures".

The modem I have now doesn't have any monitoring but a couple of flashing lights. So it occurred to my that if I got a new modem from my ISP it probably has the monitoring functions you described. Surely they are not still selling for $325 anymore. I'll call them in the morning, describe my problem and see how much a new modem is.

Strange thing though, ever since my internet connection came back yesterday, just before I made the first post, Things have been working pretty well. This XP Home computer I'm using now is a fresh install so I've been downloading the pertinent programs, firewall, virus protection, firefox... and everything downloaded normally. There hasn't been any pop up balloons today either. I wonder if the downtime yesterday was the ISP repairing whatever had been causing the problems?

Thanks again for all the advice. I'll post the resolution if I get one. Rich

 

[edfair]

Satin is a technician description for the 4 wire cable between the wall jack and the modem. Most have a gray satin finish. The wires within are parallel and have no ability to reject interference.

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[G0AOZ]

DS Margin is a standard term which describes the useable level of Broadband signal in decibels (dB) that is available above the noise level. For 512Kbps ADSL connection, I've usually found 6dB is about the limit that will allow a solid connection. So the DS Margin needs to be as HIGH as possible.

Attenuation or Loop Attenuation refers to the losses incurred in the length of cable from the telephone exchange back to your premises. The farther you are away from the exchange the greater will be this figure. Here in the U.K., 62dB to 63dB is about the limit for a sustainable connection. So this figure needs to be as LOW as possible.

Some USB modems will have software available that will allow you to check these figures. However, most decent modem/routers have this facility built into them.

The beauty of being able to easily check these figures is that you can use them to decide if it's a signal problem, if it's inside your premises or out on the wire back to the exchange.

I'd expect Routers in the U.S. to be priced around $40 to $50 maybe - they're about £40 to £50 pounds or more here in rip-off Britain!

Hope that helps...

ROGER - G0AOZ.

 

[cdogg]

Without doing extensive testing on-site, it is difficult to say exactly what's causing your problem. From the details however, I would agree that replacing the modem should be the first step. Even if it wasn't damaged by the cat incident, that event could just be coincidence and that your modem was already starting to fail on its own (age will do that to many).

I'm not sure about your ISP, but most that make you sign a contract include the modem at no cost or for a discount price. You may have opted not to receive one, but hopefully that is a condition in your contract.

Here's the order in which I'd troubleshoot:

1) Replace the phone cable to the modem
2) Try the modem at another phone jack
3) Replace the modem
4) Have the ISP test the connection on site (again, this may or may not be covered under your contract, but I suspect that it will be if a modem replacement doesn't resolve the issue)

The main thing to hit on with your ISP is that the problem is the same on two different PC's. That should help get the ball rolling a bit faster, especially when you start out talking to the low-level techs.

~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[specter333]

Here I thought that maybe things were getting better and while I read all of your replies bam, pop up balloons. Couldn't MS come up with a less annoying way of alerts.

Oh well on with the trouble shooting. I've tried new cables, I can't move the modem to a different jack. Since the problem is so sporadic I don't think that's going to make a difference.

So first I'll see how much a modem cost. Roger, your probably right about it not being too much but back when I bought this one most modems were around $50. But this MVL technology that aloud us back woods country folk to get DSL was only available from the ISP. Before that you could only get DSL if you live fairly close to a telephone station or whatever they called those. Being that I live next to one always made my DSL pretty darned nice for what we are able to get out here.

And so Satin, in my case at least, I would assume everyones DSL is on telephone service, is the phone line between my modem and wall plug.

I'm an audio tech so I definitely understand DB above noise level, but since I do live next to the switching station attenuation is not a factor. And since none of these has been an issue over the last eight years I doubt that's where the problem lies.

I believe your probably correct about the modem. When I think about it I am connected to a router first, I replaced the router so I know it's good, but even if I did lose all connection to my ISP I would still be seeing my Ethernet and not getting the balloons, correct?

So next step, buy a modem. Thanks again for all your input. Even if it never gets solved I've learned a lot from this post.

Thanks
Rich

 

[stduc]

if I did lose all connection to my ISP I would still be seeing my Ethernet and not getting the balloons, correct?

Correct.

Bearing in mind that ADSL modem/routers do not provide accurate statistics, they are certainly good enough to aid trouble shooting. You need to do a little research before buying a modem to check that it does what you want it to do. You certainly want a good stats page. My oldish DG834 gives me this for example.
(Click on the image for a bigger pic)
Basic - but helpful as you can see.

My stats aren't brilliant - they vary by the hour! But 18dB gives me about 6Mb in reality. I'm happy enough. Incidentally, I'm looking to get a new router and have asked for advice here. Which will show you that home routers are far from perfect. LOL
You may also care to check out this thread. I was having major issues that my ISP finally sorted out - but at least I had the figures to beat them about the head with, so to speak.

[navy]When I married "Miss Right" I didn't realise her first name was 'always'. LOL[/navy]

 

[specter333]

Doh, I got that backwards in my last post. I am connected to a router first. So does that mean my problem is before I get to the modem? The only other computer connected to the router is rarely ever on but it was having the same problem a while back which is what convinced me the switch out the router.

I haven't taken into account everything that could be a factor here. I need to backup and work through from one end to the other and eliminate some of the possibilities. I'll start at the modem and just plug a pc directly to it, if I can find a cross over cable, monitor it for a day or two and then work back this way.

It's nearly 3 am here and my little balloon is going nuts. It can't be a busy network so it must be something here.

Thanks again for your help. Rich

P.S. I need to start a new post for an HTML problem. Is there a category here for that?

 

[edfair]

Shouldn't require cross-over.
When you mentioned the router it changed the troubleshooting steps. The disconnect pop-up is talking about the NIC-router connection. And since it is 2 computers and 2 routers with similar results is there a possiblity that the router power is suspect?

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[cdogg]

Rich,
The router is new information here. Take it out of the equation by connecting one computer directly to the modem as a test.

~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[SteveLord]

Routers have a tendancy to go to crap...especially if they are old. I just replaced 2 Linksys routers at my company in a week. One wouldnt communicate with one of our DSL modems and the other here...was needing to be powercycled every other day.

You can pick em up at Staples or on Newegg for around $50.

IT Admin (PBX Newbie)
Nortel Option11
Version 1411
Release 21
Issue 7+
MerMail 10.7.2

 

[MaxEd]

I just got a Buffalo WHR G54S from Circuit City for $25 after a rebate. It has a stronger signal strength than my Linksys WRT54G.

-Laughter works miracles.