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Avaya needs an IP Office database conversion tool 1
- Thread starter ronromano
- Start date
Avaya in its' ultimate wisdom in regards to its' IP Office software has decided that it is not worth paying for, and I am not going to argue with them on that. As the manufacturer, I am sure they know what their software is worth.
tlpeter,
You really need to set the bar just a little bit higher than that, you made it way too easy.
tlpeter,
You really need to set the bar just a little bit higher than that, you made it way too easy.
brill bit of engineering, i know why i keep an eye on this forum.
I too do not bother upgrading sites every 6 months. Because i know new undocument features will appear. I still have systems on the old Alchemy hardware and IP Office v1.4 (remember the pain?)
I too do not bother upgrading sites every 6 months. Because i know new undocument features will appear. I still have systems on the old Alchemy hardware and IP Office v1.4 (remember the pain?)
May I just remind everyone that engineering time even remote engineering time costs money. If we upgraded every site we had every quarter to the latest releases of firmware and software on the PC and Voicemail, by the time we managed to finish it we would have to start again.
WE have quarterly releases fo three or four software versions now to contend with so even if Avaya say this is best practice, it is still not cost effective to do it and quite honestly I could employ one engineer full time to do it and yes the customer would have to pay for this which is not a good idea as they don't like paying for the kit in the firstplace or support contracts!
I would say it would be like painting the forth road bridge!
We take the view that if it aint broke don't fix it but if we are on site for another reason we will upgrade at the time. Still am not prepared to trust completly remote upgrades as they still fail and we end up on site anyway.
As a rule if the site is already 3.2 something we'll chance it or 4 something but if we have to run loaders, well this in my experience is best done on site.
Avaya need to understand (and I hve said this before) that everytime we have to fix a customers system because of undocumented features we the engineering community are the ones that pay; in time and in travel costs etc and while we are doing this we are not earning money doing another IP Office install so we all suffer!
WE have quarterly releases fo three or four software versions now to contend with so even if Avaya say this is best practice, it is still not cost effective to do it and quite honestly I could employ one engineer full time to do it and yes the customer would have to pay for this which is not a good idea as they don't like paying for the kit in the firstplace or support contracts!
I would say it would be like painting the forth road bridge!
We take the view that if it aint broke don't fix it but if we are on site for another reason we will upgrade at the time. Still am not prepared to trust completly remote upgrades as they still fail and we end up on site anyway.
As a rule if the site is already 3.2 something we'll chance it or 4 something but if we have to run loaders, well this in my experience is best done on site.
Avaya need to understand (and I hve said this before) that everytime we have to fix a customers system because of undocumented features we the engineering community are the ones that pay; in time and in travel costs etc and while we are doing this we are not earning money doing another IP Office install so we all suffer!
intrigrant
Systems Engineer
We have something we call "maintenance contracts", customer pays a montly fee and we keep the systems updated.
If you have enough customers to keep one person busy all day with maintenance then you're doing well, if not then no worries, the customer has paid for the upgrade.
NIHIL NOVI SUB SOLE
If you have enough customers to keep one person busy all day with maintenance then you're doing well, if not then no worries, the customer has paid for the upgrade.
NIHIL NOVI SUB SOLE
Maint contracts are great things. Especially when you figure in an hour each for upgrading IPO, VMPRO, Soft console, CCC, 6 per hour phone managers, Delta, etc., etc. per quarter, that is almost a day if they have much going besides the IPO itself. It does drive the cost of ownership up a bit to have to include quarterly upgrades to each component 4 times per year, but there is always a trade off.
- Thread starter
- #32
Everyone seems to forget that the real cost is not the time it takes to upgrade the software, but all the time it takes to explain the differences and make the tweaks from level to level.
I forget what release it was, but remember when they make the switch to automatic line selection and now 4412 phones had a red lit on all the time when before it didn't. Do you know what kind of pain such a simple thing caused us? It was a nightmare. Or how anout the 4.0.10 hungroup thing. Try explaining that one. It's hard to get paid on that kind of stuff.
Intrigrant, how much do you interface with end user? Not only the conpanies IT guy, but the receptionists and the everyday users?
I forget what release it was, but remember when they make the switch to automatic line selection and now 4412 phones had a red lit on all the time when before it didn't. Do you know what kind of pain such a simple thing caused us? It was a nightmare. Or how anout the 4.0.10 hungroup thing. Try explaining that one. It's hard to get paid on that kind of stuff.
Intrigrant, how much do you interface with end user? Not only the conpanies IT guy, but the receptionists and the everyday users?
There are now two versions of the IPO software. The version you pay for with the purchase of the system itself included with a limited feature set, and the expanded feature set version which requires additional licensing(nothing is free).
The reason for the free of charge maint updates has more to do with the fact that the previous version it updated was not doing what you paid for originally. The exception is the New GA releases which come with the new equipment when you pay for it, except for if you want the full featured release you have to pay more. Now the fact that the previous purchasers of the IPO get the newer GA release software for free if they have hardware which is not more than how many months old so it can use it, or if its phones are not of a type commonly sold how many months ago so the station ports are supportive of their phones DS/DT. Or if you need to keep all of the full features you had previously when you move forward into the new software/hardware the software is not then free, as it requires a paid license or you lose functionality which you previously paid for with the purchase of your IPO.
Now the other thing about the software which is free is the free way in which Avaya spends your time to implement updates, etc. in order to get what was supposed to previously work to actually work.
I am not saying that other systems do not have their issues with maint releases, etc., etc., but full stated feature support for a software release should last for at least 7 years if the software for newer releases requires hardware replacement, and upgrading 4 times a year is not to be excluded from the cvost of ownership if Avaya is going to recomend it. They should include it in the maint agreements standard if it is required/advised.
The reason for the free of charge maint updates has more to do with the fact that the previous version it updated was not doing what you paid for originally. The exception is the New GA releases which come with the new equipment when you pay for it, except for if you want the full featured release you have to pay more. Now the fact that the previous purchasers of the IPO get the newer GA release software for free if they have hardware which is not more than how many months old so it can use it, or if its phones are not of a type commonly sold how many months ago so the station ports are supportive of their phones DS/DT. Or if you need to keep all of the full features you had previously when you move forward into the new software/hardware the software is not then free, as it requires a paid license or you lose functionality which you previously paid for with the purchase of your IPO.
Now the other thing about the software which is free is the free way in which Avaya spends your time to implement updates, etc. in order to get what was supposed to previously work to actually work.
I am not saying that other systems do not have their issues with maint releases, etc., etc., but full stated feature support for a software release should last for at least 7 years if the software for newer releases requires hardware replacement, and upgrading 4 times a year is not to be excluded from the cvost of ownership if Avaya is going to recomend it. They should include it in the maint agreements standard if it is required/advised.
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