Athlon XP2000+ temperature 5

[AirCon]

Hi all,

Last month I upgraded my PC with Athlon XP2000+ (palomino). The processor comes with 80mm fan 3750-RPM. The mobo is ECS L7S7A2 with SiS 746 chipset. The case has four fans in it. Two at the lower front blow into the case. The other two is at the upper back and the middle right to suck the air off the case.

After several hours, I saw the CPU temp is 58-59C (avg). I often let the computer run for days/week. I wonder if the temp is okay which I don't think it is

Does anyone knows of a standard temp for this processor ? The weather here is about 30C if that makes a different

Thanks in advance

-- AirCon --

 

[Comtech]

It's fine. The older Athlons would melt at about 65c. The Palomino core is good to 95c (according to AMD) and 60c is normal operating temp. Anything less than that is excellent.
You can't even change the HS/Fan without voiding the warranty, so leave it. If it blows up because it's too hot, then it's covered.

Cheers,
Jim

http://members.cnx.net/reboot/

 

[AirCon]

Thanks for the quick respond Comtech

What makes me wonder cause sometimes, say after one day, the computer's on. I play a game, and on some occasion the game is crashed, then I look into the temp it raised to 61-62c.

I did some test (for the same game), when the game runs fine, close the game and quickly look into the temp it is below 60. So it makes me think something wrong with the processor temp.

Since you said that, now I have to look into another area now :-D

Thanks again

-- AirCon --

 

[Comtech]

What are you using to check the temps?
Have you tested the RAM?
Get docmem from

http://www.simmtester.com

and run it.
Have you updated directX?
Have you updated any video card drivers?
What operating system?
Have you checked into a BIOS update? (I think the SiS chipsets have something out on the ECS site).
Just a few more things to think about.

Cheers,
Jim

http://members.cnx.net/reboot/

 

[mainegeek]

Hello AirCom,
You may also want to add some thermal grease (arctic silver)
to the cpu if you haven't done so already.

 

[AirCon]

Comtech
I just downloaded the docmem (thanks for the link ;-) )

I used Aida32 v3.40
I never test the RAM cause I think there. But I downloaded the docmem and run the QuickTest and passed all the test. I'll try the burning test when I have more time (soon)

Maybe I need to list more detail about the configuration, here it is:

ECS L7S7A2 with SiS 746
BIOS date: March 13, 2003
onboard C-Media soundcard
onboard SiS 900-Based PCI 10/100 Fast Ethernet Adapter
256MB DDR333 (V-Gen, CL 2.5T, RAS-CAS 3T)
GeForce4 MX440 DDR (AGP 4X)
20GB Maxtor ATA100
ASUS CD-ROM 50x
LITE-ON CDRW (48x24x48x)
W2K SP3 Pro

All drivers are the latest one with DirectX 8.1

mainegeek
Thanks for responding
If I put thermal grease a little more than usual, do you think it would be a problem ?


-- AirCon --

 

[TomCologne]

You might also want to look into thread602-453613.

At 22-23C room temperature and 8 hours after booting, the XP 1600+ (palomino) on a Soyo Dragon+ runs at 41C while I'm typing -several background programs,"Jerry Springer" on the Ati AIW, Access,Excel and Task Mgr open, CPU Usage up to 25%.

The temperature will rise to 47C, when I run Disk Cleanup and Spybot on top of that, which increases the CPU Usage to 100%.

These readings were the same in MBM 5, Soyo Hardware Monitor and Bios.

Jim, I do not mean to question your advice, but are you sure about the 60C? AirCon's 58-59C avg (= idle or low usage?) seems rather high to me, despite the differences of room temperature and CPU. Or is the XP 2000+ really that much hotter?

You're not alone,

TomCologne

 

[AirCon]

Hi Tom
Thanks for responding

After I read that thread, I really get more confused now. And yes the average is 58-59C (celcius) at low usage. And I also think it is hot already.
But... anymore inputs/opinion anyone ?

Because if it is something wrong with the processor I'll better go back to the store soon

Regards


-- AirCon --

 

[Comtech]

There's nothing wrong with the CPU, nor the heatsink/fan, as far as AMD is concerned. It's a retail bundle, and they state the "meltdown" failure temp is 95c on the Palomino core XP2000+ (I have the same CPU, and wondered EXACTLY the same thing!).
I would not remove the heatsink/fan assembly, it voids the warranty!!!! Read the fine print on the retail box, or AMD's website.
Noticing your RAM. Are the timings in BIOS set properly?
If CAS is too fast, or R/W turnaround, then things can get flaky.
In AGP settings, is "Fastwrite" enabled? If so, disable it. I have the same video card, and had major game-playing problems until I disabled that little bit.

Cheers,
Jim

http://members.cnx.net/reboot/

 

[squidman]

In 30 degrees temp (as you said) such CPU temperature is more than good. Second. The XP1800+ to XP2200+ are friggin thermal plants. They generate a lot of heat, and yes, 59 degrees is normal in such cases. In our computer gaming club in Moscow (im 19, so i play games) it is usually 25 degrees C, because of so many computers+people. PC's have XP 2000+ (Palomino) and a temp of 67 degrees. At peak, it could be about 70. We wantd to change the sinks/fans, but as one of the users pointed out, it would void the warranty, so it really doesnt trouble us. There are no lock-ups, or freezes, or crashes. So dont worry.

 

[AirCon]

squidman,
thanks for your additional input

Jim,
I left the AMD box at the store. I'm going to ask it from them.
For the BIOS I set it with SPD. I didn't play around with the timing issue. FastWrite also disabled. Another thing for this, the VGA manual said it support fastwrite. But SiS AGP Utility showed the VGA doesn't support it. Which one is correct ? :-D

So it really nothing's wrong with the CPU. Well.. I can live with this temp.
Thanks to all of you who responding. I give Jim and squidman a star for this. Especially to Jim for giving me those good link. It has an open source

Regards

-- AirCon --

 

[paparazi]

Aircon,
I think I will put myself somewhere in between these two guys, I think you are a little warm considering the 4 case fans, whilst I appreciate the 30C ambient will raise CPU temp proportionally I feel your idle should be in the low 50's with absolutes Max at just under 60C.
I run a 2.1+ Palomino (the hottest of the bunch)!! it's been on 15 hours straight and is idling as I type at 48C with a room ambient of 24C, if I gun it for a solid hour the absolute max will raise to about 54C given that you are in a room approx 6C warmer than me that would take my MAX upto about 60C and my idle at 54C (appreciate that these are approximates) but given that you have a cooler CPU than me you can see how I come to the conclusion than you are probably 5-6C warmer all round than I think you should be.
I beg to differ about stable continuos running temps, my experience is that XP Palomino's start to become flakey when they are allowed past the mid 60's (but as you can see from the above post they can indeed run this hot) but you can see how close you are to this threshold (my opinion) 95C is meltdown max but AMD's own maximum continuos running temp for the Palomino is around 70C but they don't say how stable the CPU will be at this temp.
The retail Scrived heatsink/fan units maybe small but are pretty decent coolers, the only thing I would say is that heat transfer will be improved by cleaning off the retail heat transfer material and applying something like Arctic Silver III (a 3-4C drop is possible)
Just a note* I think aircons 3,750rpm 80mm fan is actually a 70mm unit.
XP2.2+ CPU's run much cooler than there imediate siblings because they are the first of the (thorougbred core) processors. Remember Thoroughbreds need copper based or all copper heatsinks, as recommended by AMD this is(because of the 40% smaller contact area) copper has better thermal conductivity than Aluminium to more quickly absorb the generated heat.
If you really want to get your temperature down much lower then you'll have to forget the warranty and get a better cooler, something like a Thermalright SLK800, this will definately improve things. Martin


Replying helps further our knowledge, without comment leaves us wondering.

 

[Comtech]

Just to clarify a couple of things.
Removing the heatsink/fan assembly to put on Arctic Silver (or other cooling compound) will void the warranty.
It's guaranteed for 3 years, let it run. If it burns, get a new one. If you try to get it cooler, and possibly extend it's life a month or two, you have no recourse if it burns up.
Ambient room temps DO have a lot to do with the measured CPU temp.
In my daughter's room her XP2000+ is a constant 59c, because she never does anything with it, and the room is always about 25c. I only ever saw it go over 60c once, and that was playing some online flash thingy.
My other XP2000+ runs between 45c and 52c, with a top out at 59c, but ambient room temp is always 20c or less.
My Barton 2500+ runs a constant 42c, unless I'm gaming, then it tops out at a nicely cool 51c.

To the chipset/AGP issue. The AGP card will support fastwrites, but it's possible the Sis chipset does not, or that it's not enabled because of BIOS version or chipset driver version. Run a full dxdiag on it, and see. SiS chipsets are NOT my favourite, for this (among others) reason. Check to see if there's a chipset driver update for it, and note if there's anything on AGP in the updates.

Cheers,
Jim

http://members.cnx.net/reboot/

 

[paparazi]

Comtech I wonder if you have some official info on AMD retail CPU/fan warranties, as a system builder I find it difficult to believe AMD would only warranty the CPU for a once only fitment, as you know yourself in that three year warranty period a user may wish to upgrade to a new motherboard, how does he do this without cleaning off the original paste to refit? the pads on these heatsinks can only be used once so what do we do as a recommended AMD retailer, indeed if we have a bad motherboard during a new system build are we voiding the AMD warranty by swopping it over to a new board (which would necessitate the cleaning and reapplication of a foriegn paste)
On the contrary, I can tell you that as a retailer for AMD they are far more concerned about incorrect heatsink fitment (chipped and damaged cores and signes that the heatsink has been fitted 180degrees out) infact it helps to clean off the retail goo in order to check for correct fitment.
I do agree with your assesment however, "let it run, if it burns get a new one" only thing is in my experience there are all sorts of excuses that AMD (and there official outlets) can and will use to put the burden of proof onto the user and all sorts of explainations that are used to negate there responsibilities to replace such a retail unit. I guess what I am saying is don't put too much faith in the warranty of such a retail unit, user and dealers alike are often so fickle that such claims are not so clear cut.
Martin

Replying helps further our knowledge, without comment leaves us wondering.

 

[squidman]

Both Paparazi and comtech have excellent points. AMD actually, IMPLIES the use of "native" paste. (Could be used as an excuse by amd). Paparazi is right - if user failed to install the fan correctly the first time, or switched mobos? Well, in this case amd box says: "For installation by Authorized AMD XP resellers", once again implying: "Do it yourself, we'll void your warranty". To suppoet both Paparazi and ComTech i quote the following part of the warranty: "The limited warranty shall be null or void if the amd microprocessor which is the subject of this limited warranty is used with any heatsink/fan other, than one provided herewith". It doesn't say ANYTHING about retaining original thermal comound, does it? So you can get that arctic silver!

ALSO, cases vary from one another. THis is an example. My previous case was a high (or full) tower. Or a server case. Had four fans in it. My CuMine (667EB) had a temp (overclocked to 160 MHz) of 42 degrees. In 21 degree room t. Then, i switched to high quality midtower. It has only 2 fans: power, and "eject" next to the cpu, on the back. Well, even though there's less room in it than my full tower, it keept the CuMine 4 degrees lower at the sam room temp! Also, if i move my hand to the air intake fins on the sides, i can feel the air being sucked in. That's good engineering! If i turn the intake fan on (i dont - noisy) - the t will drop another 2-3 degrees on my CPU, and 5 degrees on the VGA (GeForce 2 GTS). So t's WILL vary, and fans, apparently, dont really matter.
My XP2600+ (333mhz, not 266) runs at 45 degrees (idle)in the same case. 22 degree room. THe pc is next to the heater. But if i open the window (its cold rightr now), the t in the room will drop to 18 degrees, and the t of the CPU to 40. 3 degree room t change, 5 degree CPU t change? Hmm. Well, apparently the T of outside air IS important. If you give your CPU a chance to suck some cool air, its temperature would drop more. BUT, when the windows are closed, the room t is 23 degrees, and the cpu is 47-49. 1 degree air t change contributes to 3 degree ctpu t change??!
Well, AirCon should be happy, that his CPU is runnig 59 degrees in 30 degree temp!

 

[squidman]

ALSO, it does matter a lot where your PC is located! If its in the place with little or no airflow - then try to find another spot. People forget about this important variable (along with case) when compare their CPU temps. Theres a difference, between keeping PC in a locked-out (from air) drawer, or in a wide-open place on the floor.

 

[Comtech]

I can't quote from the warranty, BUT...if you remove the heatsink from the CPU, you will find that the "pad" that ships with the unit has done it's thing, and melted (the way it's supposed to) filling up every little imperfection between the CPU and the heatsink. If you remove that to put in some Arctic Silver, it's going to void the warranty, because it will then be obvious that it's been removed. As a system builder, I speak from experience. AMD will not warranty a burned chip that does NOT have the original thermal pad attached, and when returned to AMD, it must be stuck together as one unit. Do not separate them for shipping!
On the good side, you can up the voltage, and the FSB, and overclock 'till it melts, and they'll replace it, with no questions asked.

A little more about temps.
Running with the case off, results in a much cooler, yet noisier system. Put the case on, core temp goes up 5 degrees c. Add 3 fans, put the case back on, and temp goes down ~2 degrees c, so I've long since "lost" the cases on most of my AMD machines. My Intel boxes are all running fine with cases on. Take the same machine, and stuff it in the little slot most computer desks provide, and temps go up beyond reason. Stick the tower on top of the desk, and temps go back down. Airflow, and location have far more to do with cooling, than a bit of Arctic Silver and a fan.

Cheers,
Jim

http://members.cnx.net/reboot/

 

[paparazi]

How do you remove the CPU without first removing the heatsink? surely the CPU release lever is hidden behind the heatsink?
Martin

Replying helps further our knowledge, without comment leaves us wondering.

 

[AirCon]

I think I'm a bit late (better late than never :-D )

Paparazi, thanks for the input.

I look into the point here. Bottom line everyone's here does agree with 60C (or less) is still acceptable. But it can be lower depends on many variables. I quote a line from Comtech
<<
I have the same CPU, and wondered EXACTLY the same thing
>>

<<
In my daughter's room her XP2000+ is a constant 59c, because she never does anything with it, and the room is always about 25c
>>

I wonder how can I missed that line. So yes, I'm happy that mine is 59c in 30c room temp. But one thing is, that my computer is a bit flaky when it goes higher than 61c while squidman's CPU still runs fine even at 67c or higher. How.. why.. I don't understand this ? Could it be the processor has a bug ?

Actually I'm not too worry about the warranty. After 2-3 years I might buy a new processor which I think Barton 2700+ will be around 100$.
Paparazi is correct that my fan is 70mm . So if I replace the fan with 80mm, it should turn the temp a little lower I guess. I'm thinking of getting Volcano-7. Is it good or bad ?

Thanks again


-- AirCon --

 

[Comtech]

When a CPU is made, all the cores are on a round disk of silicon.
Those on the inside and outside edge tend to be a little thinner, thicker, or warped more than those from the middle.
If YOUR CPU is made from an edge, then it's more likely to be less heat (and overclocking) tolerant, whereas those made from the middle will be able to take more stress, with less flakyness.
The other differences may be between batch numbers. Not all CPU die's are alike. An early batch may be superb, a later one not as good, and even later, they may be better again.
There's simply no way to really tell what a CPU will handle, until it's powered up and tested in the REAL world.
Some will handle 70c easily, some get flaky at 60.
Some will overclock easily 30-50mhz, some only 8-10mhz.
I agree about the warranty. By the time my CPU is getting anywhere near meltdown, I'll have a newer, faster one anyhow, and then will bump the voltage about half a volt, and see if I can double it's speed. If it melts, who cares?

Cheers,
Jim

http://members.cnx.net/reboot/