Athlon XP and heat 1

[edemiere]

Hello everyone.

Usually I can find a solution to just about anything that I work on in my basement on my 13 PC LAN. However, I recently completed building a new system from pieces and parts that people have given me and I got a serious heat problem that I just cannot seem to fix. Let me lay out the details and scenarios.

SYSTEM:
Asus A7V8X-X Motherboard
Athlon XP 2700+ (Thorobred B){Retail Boxed}
GeForce4 Ti4600
1GB Kingston DDR333 Memory (2 x 512MB)
WD 80GB UDMA100 HDD
SB Live! X-Gamer 5.1
Note: Nothing is overclocked


I have the system installed and working fine except for a heat problem. I use the standard heatsink that comes with the CPU and the system runs around 60C (sitting at desktop running something like seti@home), I put in a better heatsink with little change, got it down to 57C. I put in a 3rd heatsink with no change. The system used to lockup a lot until I put a fan on the southbridge heatsink and then most of the lockups went away. However, under heavy load (i.e. 3D gaming) the system runs fine, but gets to 67C.

Now, the 67C is with the side of the case off, whereas with the case side on I get over 75C and start to experience random lockups or a system shutdown from the temperature setting in the BIOS.

This PC has 10 Fans installed. Fans are as follows:

2 in powersupply
1 in back of case
2 blowing in front of case (which speed up as case temp gets hotter)
1 CPU fan
1 PCI slot fan
1 Southbridge fan
2 on hard drive

There is great airflow with the side on the case, however heat on the CPU seems to still be a problem.

I have used thermal paste on the heatsink/CPU each time I have changed out heatsinks. (yes, I clean the CPU off each time so as if not to get buildup).

Anyone have any suggestions on a better heatsink/fan combo for the CPU? I am fairly certain that it'll melt down a lot faster than I want if I don't get that load temperature down.

Thanks for any and all suggestions guys, I need to find a better heatsink solution.

Cheers!

 

[Tarwn]

Watercooling Although I don't think that will kock off 20C...

Seriously though, I would suggest going to radio shack or similar place and getting a handheld temperature measurerererrer. The laser ones are more expensive but also more accurate. It could be just a case of a bad temp sensor or something similar. Although I still think 38C inside the case is to warm

[sub]01000111 01101111 01110100 00100000 01000011 01101111 01100110 01100110 01100101 01100101 00111111[/sub]

http://www.tiernok.com/

The never-completed website

 

[Deezul]

cut a blowhole in the top.........also try a Thermalright SLK-800 and some Arctic Ceramique....slap a delta fan on there and if that doesn't cool it nothing will

 

[crazy888s]

Here's a simple solution that isn't the correct, perfect, or recommended method, but i promise it will fix the heat problem:

Turn off all of your fans except the crutial ones (CPU, power supply) and take off the cover to your case =). And if youre really desperate, set a little household fan next to the computer that lightly blows air in. Just be prepared to use a compressed air duster every week or two to keep dust from building up! And set it in a place where nothing can accidentally fly in there and a place where children won't stick their fingers in. it works....hahahahaha......i'm crazy, i know. But if it keeps the computer from locking up and keeps your hardware safe from heat damage, it's quite satisfying!!!!!!!!!

 

[Nate1749]

FYI - Heat does not rise (don't believe what the crowd says), it moves to colder regions (which are most commonly up). A hot CPU would have a cloud of the hottest heat around it, making other heat coming towards it (ie from the video card) having no direct effect on it. However, it would interfere with other air that is colder around it which could be elsewise cooling (attemping to) the cpu.

THis is a technicality, but still having a better understanding of the culprit (heat) may help you solve this.

If you have any empty PCI slots I would go ahead and take the metal pieces off, this would allow warm air directly from the video card to escape from that slot. The downside of these slots being open is dust getting in the machine, just use an air duster semi-monthly and you should be good. You should be doing that anyway since dust build up can drastically slow down (and stop/ruin) a fan.

 

[edemiere]

Well, my new heatsink and such showed up yesterday, but I wasn't there to sign for my $14 in goods, lol, I love that!

Anyway, I left the signed paper on my door for them to leave the package and tonight I will begin the arduous task of trying to reduce the heat build up on the CPU.

Tried a few idea's last night with my existing fans and such but still hit 67C playing NWN for 20 minutes.

Will see what happens tonight after I get things moved around.

Thanks for all the great feedback guys!

Cheers!

 

[edemiere]

Hello again folks.

I am quite sad to report little to no change in my temperatures.

Put in the new heatsink, fan, duct and shim.

I have played around with the different fan configurations by not using slot fan and/or the front fans, etc.

I have tried every combination with little to no change, which boggles the mind.

Right now I have NO slot fan, NO front fans. Just the CPU Fan, Rear Fan, and of course PS fans.

I have full load with seti@home and winamp going.

Mobo Temp: 37C
CPU Temp: 63C

The central A/C is blowing on me, and of course, all around the case atm, which tells me there isn't much I can do about lowering the temperature in the room anymore than it is now.

Unless Asus Probe is borked on it's reporting.

Gonna get Sandra and try. Will let ya know what happens.

Cheers! (well, not really in this case, but its standard)

 

[edemiere]

Well, Sandra says the same thing 37C and 63C

I am out of things to try or guess at.

Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

There has to be something wrong, there isn't any reason for this to be running this hot. It just doesn't make sense.

Does artic silver 3 really make THAT much of a difference over the white stuff that comes with heatsinks?

I did find a water cooling system for $70, but pouring more money out isn't what I had in mind.

I am all ears...

 

[relaksuah]

wellllllllllllll you can try to take the whole mobo out of the case, put it on a non-static non-conducive surface (putting it on a simple wooden stool or on top of the casing with non-static foam in between) insert the cards and connect the drives, PSU, power switches and such.

if this doesn't work still... well you can have the chip n mobo checked out at the store...

this solution works for overclockers... I love the skeleton casing no sides to trap heat, air flowing freely, and so on... looks good with neon lights along the frame...

 

[edemiere]

Well, I think I found a right combo (at least it's better now).

I now idle at 48C and at load 54C

That means I got 13C off it during load.

I took out the slot fan and the two front fans. Took the fan off the speeze heatsink and put on a thermaltake one that self adjusts speed based on temp.

It is quieter than ever before and cooler!

I might actually be inclined to try artic silver goo.

So, now the quest for a bit cooler temps begins, but I can rest now knowing my CPU load temp is acceptable or maybe even normal.

Thanks everyone for the inputs!

Cheers!

 

[Nate1749]

Try moving your computer to a different environment and see if the change still exists. What I mean if your in your basement, move it to the kitchen or 2nd floor; I'm wondering if humidity or something else is playing a role here.... Just guessing...

 

[edemiere]

After a full night since my last post of keeping the system at FULL load it is still sitting at 53C

I think we can claim victory! =)

Now, maybe someone can tell me their experiences with the arctic silver iii compound vs the regular white goo that comes with heatsinks.

Is it really worth the money for me to invest? I mean, am I going to see a good heat drop from using it?

Appreciate any feedback based on experiences.

Thanks and Cheers!

 

[mainegeek]

Carefully remove the pad from the bottom of the heatsink. I usually use a razor blade. Be VERY CAREFUL not to scratch
or gouge it. You may need to use some nail polish remover or rubbing alcohol to get all the adhesive off. Apply a pea size amount of thermal compound (Arctic Silver II) to the top center of the cpu. Be carefull not to get it all over the place as it is conductive. In addition, you sould also re-attach the fan that you had on the front of the case. This should bring your cpu temp some where in the 40c range.

 

[edemiere]

mainegeek

I removed the stock stuff off the bottom of the heatsink, all I need was my thumb and it all fell off into my lap.

As for the fans in the front, I am not sure that will help me as removing them is what enabled me to get the temp down to what it is now.

As for the artic silver compound, will that help me by 5C or more? If not, then I don't see it as worth my investment...

Cheers!

 

[mainegeek]

Make sure you are using the correct heatsink/fan for that cpu.

You should have a fan blowing fresh air into the case.

You need a good heat transfer from the cpu to the heatsink.
Arctic Silver II works great for this and a copper based heatsink with it is even better.

 

[edemiere]

mainegeek

It is a correct model of heatsink/fan though I did replace the fan on it with one of the same rpm and cfm, however the fan I put on it now will increase its rpm/cfm as the air inside the case gets warmer.

The "freah air blowing into the case" that you referred to was actually causing turbulence and not allowing smooth air flow in the case which was actually resulting in high cpu and motherboard temps. (I read this in AMD's recommended cooling tips on their website).

I might consider putting the slot fan back in, but actually locating it closer to the Ti4600 to take the heat from that card and get it out of the case.

I guess I will seek our some artic silver compound this weekend.

Cheers!

 

[euston]

SOME BASIC PHYSICS

Hot air rises because it is less dense than cold air which responds to gravity by displacing the lighter warmer air. This rule applies to gases and liquids.

It's no good paying throught the nose for fancy heat transfer compound when the simple problem is that there is insufficient flow of cooling air through the case with the consequence that the air is unable to carry away enough the necessary heat from the heat sink. Whichever way you slice it, the only way out for the heat is through proper case ventilation. The warmer the case air, the less heat it can absorb from the heat sink. If the the case air is nearly the same temperature as the heat sink, then no heat will be removed. The only solution is plenty of cool air passing through the case.

 

[mainegeek]

euston,
In the past I have run just a heatsink/cpu fan with thermal compound and used the power supply fan to pull air out. The results were 5c-7c drop at the cpu, compared to 1 fan in 1 fan out and no thermal compound. The "Basic Physics" to this is to remove as much heat from the cpu as possible. So, good airflow with in the case is secondary and almost irrelevant if you have not established a good heat transfer from the cpu to the heatsink. I use MPU 3.7
High Performance Thermal Grease and it costs $10 for 1 gram
and it goes along way.

 

[relaksuah]

Best airflow is when you have the motherboard on top of the casing and not in a cramped space such as the casing itself ;p

esp when you have a VERY BIG air conditioner,compared to those puny fans, blowing onto the motherboard directly...

Having a good heatsink installed properly onto the CPU with thermal grease in between will draw heat away from the CPU, good airflow will make the heatsink cooler and thus draw more heat away from the CPU... a combination of both would be perfect, right?

 

[relaksuah]

btw, i'm using an AMD Athlon XP 2000+ on an ECS K7S5A v3.1 with Kingston PC2100 512MBx1 RAM, nVidia TNT 2 32MB video card, HDD, CDRW, floppy installed, 4 casing fans: two in front blowing in, one behind blowing out, a big one blowing in on the side (this one was from a server, big bulky but cooling) and the heatsink came in the box with the AMD processor. heatsink is installed with thermal grease and is doing fine. temps are casing:38C CPU:52C
casing has holes front and back for the fans as described above and has two big holes on the sides, that's why I can afford the big server fan there all five empty slots have the covers removed at the back so the impact of the server fan is going out through there.
PC turns on like a jet engine, but my gaming volume is boosted by my altec lansing speakers so I have no complaints about that ;p

 

[euston]

Hello mainegeek,

I'm not contradicting what you say but the heat transfer coefficient between the heat sink cooling fins and the air which carries the heat away is the controlling factor. The thermal conductivity of the joint between the CPU and heat sink is an essential link in the chain but unless the heat passing to the heat sink has somewhere to go, the heat sink will just get hotter and hotter. The radiant heat given off by a heat sink is one way out for that heat but the major proportion of the heat is conducted away by case air.

I suppose that such discussion as we are having is far more constructive and useful than smoking crack. Personally, I like a nice cup of tea, which is what all well brought up English girls should drink.


C.Eng, M.I.Chem.E