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Athlon XP 2000+ 50 degrees
- Thread starter Pyramus
- Start date
Yes, 50 is OK. Remember that temp measuring systems are very variable and not always accurate. For example I am running a duron 800 on an Asus A7V 133C board. The supplied software, Asus Probe, will give my CPU temp at anywhere between 45 and 70 depending on my usage and the ambient temperature (I live in a warm climate with no AC) however if I restart and go into setup the BIOS always reports the temp anything up to 15 degrees cooler. Both these readings are supposedly coming from the same source, go figure. All things are possible except skiing through a revolving door.
- Thread starter
- #3
CitrixEngineer
Technical User
50 is OK, but I'd investigate ways of getting it to run a bit cooler - if you have it on for long periods of time, you could see temps creeping up. I prefer to see my temps in the 30s-40s.
A dab of Arctic Silver or similar thermal paste will help, as will a copper shim between the heatsink and proc. You could save up to 10 degrees.
Tidy up those cables, so you get better airflow between front and rear fans. Round IDE cables can help.
Make sure the front fan is taking air in, and the rear is blowing out. Consider a side exhaust fan, if your case allows it.
Make sure there's space at the back for the system to exhaust, and space around the front for intake. Every month or so, clean out the intake filter (most cases have one, and if your doesn't, get one to keep the dust / pet hair / nachos crumbs out.
If you can, create space between your disks and add-on cards. Warning; changing the cards around will change the motherboard resources they use, and could create conflicts in your operating system. Keeping them close together will form "heat wells". Check this out on a system that's been up and running for a while.
All these are very cheap and effective ways of keeping your processor alive for a bit longer.
CitrixEngineer@yahoo.co.uk
A dab of Arctic Silver or similar thermal paste will help, as will a copper shim between the heatsink and proc. You could save up to 10 degrees.
Tidy up those cables, so you get better airflow between front and rear fans. Round IDE cables can help.
Make sure the front fan is taking air in, and the rear is blowing out. Consider a side exhaust fan, if your case allows it.
Make sure there's space at the back for the system to exhaust, and space around the front for intake. Every month or so, clean out the intake filter (most cases have one, and if your doesn't, get one to keep the dust / pet hair / nachos crumbs out.
If you can, create space between your disks and add-on cards. Warning; changing the cards around will change the motherboard resources they use, and could create conflicts in your operating system. Keeping them close together will form "heat wells". Check this out on a system that's been up and running for a while.
All these are very cheap and effective ways of keeping your processor alive for a bit longer.
CitrixEngineer@yahoo.co.ukHate to disagree with you, CitrixEngineer, but there are a couple of things that are wrong in your suggestions.
One:
A copper shim will in no way shape or form help you cool your cpu. In fact, it will most likely make it run a bit warmer, as the heatsink has to deal with heat from the package as well as the heat from the CPU itself.
Two:
The fan in the rear should be sucking in and the one on the front should be exhausting. This is because the air then is much cooler that you get to your heatsink. Also not a great idea just to have a side exhaust...you'd really be better off having a side fan blowing in (so that it doesn't make your heatsink fan fight for the air) and have a more powerful fan (ie LOUDER) exhuasting..which isn't always feasible, nor necessary.
And Mulga, yes, the temperature software is inaccurate, but that's because the in-socket diode is just plain bad. They can be off by as much as 10C. Not in your favor, either. And a CPU's temp can vary widely depending on what you do, as when you do something like gaming as opposed to surfing the web, you're using the processor much more. The processor doesn't really do anything during idle cycles...it just sits there waiting for something to do, which doesn't cause any heat. Using something onboard to read the temp is only good if you're using it as a warning system for a meltdown.
On to the question being asked by Pyramus. 50C isn't great, BUT it isn't going to kill your cpu anytime soon, either. I wouldn't overclock with a starting temp there, though. You can find more information on what would be a safe temp by checking out which is a very good article on what kinds of temps AMD processors can handle.
One:
A copper shim will in no way shape or form help you cool your cpu. In fact, it will most likely make it run a bit warmer, as the heatsink has to deal with heat from the package as well as the heat from the CPU itself.
Two:
The fan in the rear should be sucking in and the one on the front should be exhausting. This is because the air then is much cooler that you get to your heatsink. Also not a great idea just to have a side exhaust...you'd really be better off having a side fan blowing in (so that it doesn't make your heatsink fan fight for the air) and have a more powerful fan (ie LOUDER) exhuasting..which isn't always feasible, nor necessary.
And Mulga, yes, the temperature software is inaccurate, but that's because the in-socket diode is just plain bad. They can be off by as much as 10C. Not in your favor, either. And a CPU's temp can vary widely depending on what you do, as when you do something like gaming as opposed to surfing the web, you're using the processor much more. The processor doesn't really do anything during idle cycles...it just sits there waiting for something to do, which doesn't cause any heat. Using something onboard to read the temp is only good if you're using it as a warning system for a meltdown.
On to the question being asked by Pyramus. 50C isn't great, BUT it isn't going to kill your cpu anytime soon, either. I wouldn't overclock with a starting temp there, though. You can find more information on what would be a safe temp by checking out which is a very good article on what kinds of temps AMD processors can handle.
Thelemac, you obviously havn't built many systems? and checked out if what you say works!
In all my years as a builder I have never seen anyone suggest that the front LOWER case fan should EXHAUST!
Have you ever heard of CONVECTION? HOT AIR RISES and you cannot defy scientific fact!
I have played with the top rear BOTH WAYS! and can confirm without hesitation the top rear works best EXHAUSTING (although I too was convinced otherwise) untill I carried out tests myself on several builds.
Citrix Engineer knows his onions and that is why he is top tip master (not sure about the shim) but as it does not create heat but absorbs and disipates it, and may well transfer some of this to the heatsink I cannot see the shim causing the CPU to run hotter. Martin
Just trying to help, sometimes falling short, I am only human after all.
In all my years as a builder I have never seen anyone suggest that the front LOWER case fan should EXHAUST!
Have you ever heard of CONVECTION? HOT AIR RISES and you cannot defy scientific fact!
I have played with the top rear BOTH WAYS! and can confirm without hesitation the top rear works best EXHAUSTING (although I too was convinced otherwise) untill I carried out tests myself on several builds.
Citrix Engineer knows his onions and that is why he is top tip master (not sure about the shim) but as it does not create heat but absorbs and disipates it, and may well transfer some of this to the heatsink I cannot see the shim causing the CPU to run hotter. Martin
Just trying to help, sometimes falling short, I am only human after all.
Thelemac, you obviously havn't built many systems? and checked out if what you say works!
In all my years as a builder I have never seen anyone suggest that the front LOWER case fan should EXHAUST!
Have you ever heard of CONVECTION? HOT AIR RISES and you cannot defy scientific fact!
I have played with the top rear BOTH WAYS! and can confirm without hesitation the top rear works best EXHAUSTING (although I too was convinced otherwise) untill I carried out tests myself on several builds.
Citrix Engineer knows his onions and that is why he is top tip master (not sure about the shim) but as it does not create heat but absorbs and disipates it, and may well transfer some of this to the heatsink I cannot see the shim causing the CPU to run hotter.
Last thing! remember this is an XP2000+ and not a Duron,
50C is not bad at all for a processor kicking out 80+watts of heat, only thing I would say is you must have at least your two fan mount points used (drawing IN at the front lower and EXHAUSTING rear back) and check your absolute MAX temp! 30mins in 3D mark 2001 or similar, I usually see in the mid 50's when I build with one of these CPU's.
You will need to take remedial action if you are seeing 60+
Better heatsink/fan (Volcano 7/ Silver mountain II etc)
Martin
Just trying to help, sometimes falling short, I am only human after all.
In all my years as a builder I have never seen anyone suggest that the front LOWER case fan should EXHAUST!
Have you ever heard of CONVECTION? HOT AIR RISES and you cannot defy scientific fact!
I have played with the top rear BOTH WAYS! and can confirm without hesitation the top rear works best EXHAUSTING (although I too was convinced otherwise) untill I carried out tests myself on several builds.
Citrix Engineer knows his onions and that is why he is top tip master (not sure about the shim) but as it does not create heat but absorbs and disipates it, and may well transfer some of this to the heatsink I cannot see the shim causing the CPU to run hotter.
Last thing! remember this is an XP2000+ and not a Duron,
50C is not bad at all for a processor kicking out 80+watts of heat, only thing I would say is you must have at least your two fan mount points used (drawing IN at the front lower and EXHAUSTING rear back) and check your absolute MAX temp! 30mins in 3D mark 2001 or similar, I usually see in the mid 50's when I build with one of these CPU's.
You will need to take remedial action if you are seeing 60+
Better heatsink/fan (Volcano 7/ Silver mountain II etc)
Martin
Just trying to help, sometimes falling short, I am only human after all.
Yes, in fact, I have built many systems, and can verify that having the rear fan as intake and front as exhaust does, in fact, work better than the other. Sure, hot air rises...but when you're pushing it at 50 or more cfm, it really doesn't matter. The hot air rising means very little compared to the force of the fans. If you're using an insocket thermistor to read the temps, that's probalby why you're seeing it wrong...like I said, I would only use them as a basic means of watching for a thermal meltdown. Anything in the way of comparisons is just plain misleading.
The shim does not create heat, this is true. It does, however, transfer additional heat to the heatsink that normally would not be, which makes it harder to cool the CORE of the CPU. The ONLY reason you would want to use a shim is if you want the added insurance towards protecting your core from being crushed when you install the heatsink.
Just because it's an XP and not a Duron doesn't mean that you can afford higher temps. It just means that you have to be more careful about them. Yes, it will run hotter, but that doesn't mean that it temps higher than what a Duron can handle are any good. Good or not for a processor putting out 80+ watts, it doesn't change the safety limit of the processor.
Overall, though, if your system is stable for everything you do, you don't have to worry about the heat. Unless you're planning to overclock that is.
The shim does not create heat, this is true. It does, however, transfer additional heat to the heatsink that normally would not be, which makes it harder to cool the CORE of the CPU. The ONLY reason you would want to use a shim is if you want the added insurance towards protecting your core from being crushed when you install the heatsink.
Just because it's an XP and not a Duron doesn't mean that you can afford higher temps. It just means that you have to be more careful about them. Yes, it will run hotter, but that doesn't mean that it temps higher than what a Duron can handle are any good. Good or not for a processor putting out 80+ watts, it doesn't change the safety limit of the processor.
Overall, though, if your system is stable for everything you do, you don't have to worry about the heat. Unless you're planning to overclock that is.
- Thread starter
- #9
Thelemac, I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one!
And you will also have to agree with most of what you have said being opposite to general consences of opinion.
I didn't even mention air flow diagrams in my first comment, do you also reverse the power supply fan to draw in air? so the airflow is direct?
So I think these big case manufactures like Lian Li MUST big WRONG! despite all the tens of thousands of Dollars they must spend they fit there fans sucking in at the front lower and exhausting at the top and rear, I would Email them with your ideas as obviously you have more experience than them.
AMD posted absolute max's for Durons is 90C
and for Athlons and XP's it's 95C, so I think we are a long way from the "safety limit" as you put it.
Surely what we are talking about is stability.
All I was doing was to point out the fact that it is going to be easier to keep a Durons temperature under control that a XP2000+ because of the extra heat generated by the XP.
Just a note to pyramus, fit extra case fans! Martin
Just trying to help, sometimes falling short, I am only human after all.
And you will also have to agree with most of what you have said being opposite to general consences of opinion.
I didn't even mention air flow diagrams in my first comment, do you also reverse the power supply fan to draw in air? so the airflow is direct?
So I think these big case manufactures like Lian Li MUST big WRONG! despite all the tens of thousands of Dollars they must spend they fit there fans sucking in at the front lower and exhausting at the top and rear, I would Email them with your ideas as obviously you have more experience than them.
AMD posted absolute max's for Durons is 90C
and for Athlons and XP's it's 95C, so I think we are a long way from the "safety limit" as you put it.
Surely what we are talking about is stability.
All I was doing was to point out the fact that it is going to be easier to keep a Durons temperature under control that a XP2000+ because of the extra heat generated by the XP.
Just a note to pyramus, fit extra case fans! Martin
Just trying to help, sometimes falling short, I am only human after all.
CitrixEngineer
Technical User
I have to say that the exhaust fan at the front theory could not work*, due to convection, as paparazi points out - hot air rises. There are many "expert" articles around the web which make that point, and all my tests have indicated that the theory I have suggested is good in practice by up to 10 degrees.
*Unless there was an exhaust as well as an intake, as a couple of articles over on suggest, with possibly a passive vent at the side, instead of an additional fan.
If you've got any links to prove your theory, I'd be most interested to read them, Thelemac.
Also, the space around the back of a computer tends to be smaller (and gets warmer quicker) than the room in front of it - try putting your hand behind your PC and see exactly what I mean.
Airflow inside the case is what is most important - Keeping a stream of cool air over your warming components.
I suggested the shim, because, if you've whipped the heatsink off your processor, sooner or later you have to put it back. This greatly increases the chance of damaging the CPU - especially Athlons, but a shim will keep pressure off the processor and, for a few pounds, is a worthy investment. I've even read reports of temps dropping after installing a shim, but in theory, since they sit on the ceramic, it makes no difference.
It will certainly transfer heat to the heatsink, if installed correctly with thermal grease applied - but, guess what? That is what the heatsink is there for - it dissipates heat. Anyway, it is an insignificant amount.
I forgot to say, if you are applying thermal paste, remove that horrible pink rubbish that most heatsinks ship with - it's useless.
As I said in my first post, 50 is not bad at all - I just like to keep my own Athlon processor below 40 at all times, so even if my theories are proved wrong I don't mind - my computer runs very cool![[bigglasses]](/data/assets/smilies/bigglasses.gif "[bigglasses] [bigglasses]")
CitrixEngineer@yahoo.co.uk
*Unless there was an exhaust as well as an intake, as a couple of articles over on suggest, with possibly a passive vent at the side, instead of an additional fan.
If you've got any links to prove your theory, I'd be most interested to read them, Thelemac.
Also, the space around the back of a computer tends to be smaller (and gets warmer quicker) than the room in front of it - try putting your hand behind your PC and see exactly what I mean.
Airflow inside the case is what is most important - Keeping a stream of cool air over your warming components.
I suggested the shim, because, if you've whipped the heatsink off your processor, sooner or later you have to put it back. This greatly increases the chance of damaging the CPU - especially Athlons, but a shim will keep pressure off the processor and, for a few pounds, is a worthy investment. I've even read reports of temps dropping after installing a shim, but in theory, since they sit on the ceramic, it makes no difference.
It will certainly transfer heat to the heatsink, if installed correctly with thermal grease applied - but, guess what? That is what the heatsink is there for - it dissipates heat. Anyway, it is an insignificant amount.
I forgot to say, if you are applying thermal paste, remove that horrible pink rubbish that most heatsinks ship with - it's useless.
As I said in my first post, 50 is not bad at all - I just like to keep my own Athlon processor below 40 at all times, so even if my theories are proved wrong I don't mind - my computer runs very cool
CitrixEngineer@yahoo.co.uk
CitrixEngineer
Technical User
Couple of links about shims. They contain information that is a little contradictory in some paragraphs (on the issue of heat dissipation), but agree on the important points, which is why I posted them.
CitrixEngineer@yahoo.co.uk
CitrixEngineer@yahoo.co.uk
I think perhaps I may have misunderstood your post. I thought that you meant for there to be two fans instead of just one. For just one fan I don't really know what I would do...but one would be better than none, that's for sure. Even a low flow one would be good. I suppose that I would probably put it in the front as an intake and try to clear the area so that you can get something in the way of airflow with the PSU fan as well. Also wasn't considering the average users setup where it tends to be rather cramped and hot behind the computer as opposed to the front. Also an important consideration. Here's a link that, other considerations aside, shows that back in front out is at least equal to front in back out. Written by one of the more meticulous people that I know.
For the shims, I thought you meant to use them to aid in cooling. Since this is not the case, I would have a tendency to agree to it...if you're buying stuff anyway. THough I wouldn't suggest a copper one...they have a tendency to be easier to bend that some of the other ones that are availabe..since copper is so malleable and all.
As for thermal paste, I agree 100%. Even the RadioShack white paste is better than that pad.
Paparazi, you should really check out that link in my first post. It gives documentation from AMD's technical specifications on the upper limit for the temperature of a CPU running for any length of time.
I would also just like to add that just because what I say is against the generally held opinion doesn't make it wrong...I don't have opinions on this matter. I have well researched and informed facts.
And of course I don't reverse the flow of my PSU fan...it's affect on my airflow overall is very minimal, AND I don't really want it putting all the heat from my PSU into my case. I'm trying to get the heat out.
For the shims, I thought you meant to use them to aid in cooling. Since this is not the case, I would have a tendency to agree to it...if you're buying stuff anyway. THough I wouldn't suggest a copper one...they have a tendency to be easier to bend that some of the other ones that are availabe..since copper is so malleable and all.
As for thermal paste, I agree 100%. Even the RadioShack white paste is better than that pad.
Paparazi, you should really check out that link in my first post. It gives documentation from AMD's technical specifications on the upper limit for the temperature of a CPU running for any length of time.
I would also just like to add that just because what I say is against the generally held opinion doesn't make it wrong...I don't have opinions on this matter. I have well researched and informed facts.
And of course I don't reverse the flow of my PSU fan...it's affect on my airflow overall is very minimal, AND I don't really want it putting all the heat from my PSU into my case. I'm trying to get the heat out.
CitrixEngineer
Technical User
...the lengths some people will go to to get a cool case!
Overclockers.com is a pretty decent source of mad people who will do just about anything for a few extra Mhz.
Note that the author uses a heavy-duty blower. I would be hesitant to use such a powerful beast for the noise it makes, and the fact that it would suck in a huge pile of dust and debris. Being heavier than air, this detritus would be deposited all over the inside of the case and not be blown out again through his carefully designed air passage. At the speed it gets sucked in, I would be surprised if components didn't get damaged - why do you think regular PC fans are so "feeble"?
His speculations (the red and blue markings on the photos) are very interesting, but the contrast is too great. The air might be a little warmer by the time it gets up to the processor, but not as dramatically as his pen markings make out. I'd like to see experiments with coloured smoke that actually show where the air goes, not pen markings that are largely guesswork.
It really is a fascinating article, nonetheless. However, I'm happy with the way my processor is cooled - I guess it's what works best for you. Just because 100 engineers say one thing doesn't mean that 1 engineer who says something else is wrong.
I'm not about to buy an industrial strength blower, though!
CitrixEngineer@yahoo.co.uk
Overclockers.com is a pretty decent source of mad people who will do just about anything for a few extra Mhz.
Note that the author uses a heavy-duty blower. I would be hesitant to use such a powerful beast for the noise it makes, and the fact that it would suck in a huge pile of dust and debris. Being heavier than air, this detritus would be deposited all over the inside of the case and not be blown out again through his carefully designed air passage. At the speed it gets sucked in, I would be surprised if components didn't get damaged - why do you think regular PC fans are so "feeble"?
His speculations (the red and blue markings on the photos) are very interesting, but the contrast is too great. The air might be a little warmer by the time it gets up to the processor, but not as dramatically as his pen markings make out. I'd like to see experiments with coloured smoke that actually show where the air goes, not pen markings that are largely guesswork.
It really is a fascinating article, nonetheless. However, I'm happy with the way my processor is cooled - I guess it's what works best for you. Just because 100 engineers say one thing doesn't mean that 1 engineer who says something else is wrong.
I'm not about to buy an industrial strength blower, though!
CitrixEngineer@yahoo.co.uk
I was just using that as a reference for the front in back out part...just where he used some empirical data with getting better temps when he reversed the flow.
The blower itself is actually very quiet (or so I've heard) aside from the actual noise of the air flow, which isn't bad once you get it to slow down a tad. Most people that I've heard that have tried this have mentioned that the squeaky noise goes away once the thing isn't so new, too.
The blower itself is actually very quiet (or so I've heard) aside from the actual noise of the air flow, which isn't bad once you get it to slow down a tad.
Most people that I've heard that have tried this have mentioned that the squeaky noise goes away once the thing isn't so new, too.ok, I just ran some tests this weekend with 2 80MM fans in my case. My runs at MB - 48C, CPU0 51C CPU1 54C without any cooling other than the PSU fan pumping air out at the back.
intake at lower front and exaust upper back MB 35C CPU0 50C CPU1 51C
intake upper back, exaust lower front MB 49C CPU0 51C CPU1 52C.
My tests show that by reversing the (99%) agreed upon standard, the CPUs cool down a bit, but the board actually heated up. (from base temps) while the standard of exaust at upper back did a much better job on the board and slightly better on the CPU's
For anyone wanting to debate my temperature readings,I used a infared thermoprobe and had a clear plastic cover on the side of my case. The plastic has been tested and shows that it never affects the temperature reading by more than 0.25C The motherboard temerature reading was taken dead center between the 2 processors.
Now, to bring in my nice 120MM fan... still trying to figure out the best placement for it
intake at lower front and exaust upper back MB 35C CPU0 50C CPU1 51C
intake upper back, exaust lower front MB 49C CPU0 51C CPU1 52C.
My tests show that by reversing the (99%) agreed upon standard, the CPUs cool down a bit, but the board actually heated up. (from base temps) while the standard of exaust at upper back did a much better job on the board and slightly better on the CPU's
For anyone wanting to debate my temperature readings,I used a infared thermoprobe and had a clear plastic cover on the side of my case. The plastic has been tested and shows that it never affects the temperature reading by more than 0.25C The motherboard temerature reading was taken dead center between the 2 processors.
Now, to bring in my nice 120MM fan... still trying to figure out the best placement for it
Check out . I found it yesterday while surfing around. That will give you some ideas for sure. By the way, I'm not affiliated with FozenCPU. I've had to post this site a couple times already and I don't want togive the wrong impression.
Jay [3Eyes]
Jay [3Eyes]
I have just upgraded my system from Athlon 1200 with GF 2 GTS to XP 2000+ with GF4 Ti4600. I changed my old coolermaster heatsink/fan for a thermaltake volcano 6cu+. I don't know about you guys, but the extra noise from this fan alone annoys me! I have one case fan at the front (80mm) that sucks air in, and I had to disconnect it because the noise of both fans together is like a 747 taking off! With just CPU cooling only, my CPU runs between 51 and 55 when under load. This is not ideal, but I have not had any problems. I have set my mobo cut off to 58 degrees. Any tips from you guys would be appreciated for a cooler CPU without the noise. Water cooling perhaps? My PC spec is:
Asus A7V333 mobo
300w PSU
Athlon XP 2000+ cpu
Creative GF 4 Ti4600 graphics card
512mb 2100 DDR RAM
IBM Deskstar GXP 120gb h/d
Creative SB 5.1 soundcard
1x CDROM + 1x CDR W
Asus A7V333 mobo
300w PSU
Athlon XP 2000+ cpu
Creative GF 4 Ti4600 graphics card
512mb 2100 DDR RAM
IBM Deskstar GXP 120gb h/d
Creative SB 5.1 soundcard
1x CDROM + 1x CDR W
In my experience if it's got to be just one fan, then the most cooling effective is the rear back on it's own, exhausting out, which also happens to be furthest from earshot.
As for the CPU noise! a 60 to 80mm step up adapter enables the use of a much quieter 80mm fan at the same CFM/power rating, minus the noise!!!!! but make sure you have the space to fit one. Martin.
Just trying to help, sometimes falling short, I am only human after all.
As for the CPU noise! a 60 to 80mm step up adapter enables the use of a much quieter 80mm fan at the same CFM/power rating, minus the noise!!!!! but make sure you have the space to fit one. Martin.
Just trying to help, sometimes falling short, I am only human after all.
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