AT&T IP Flex Service on Magix 4

[bryandj23]

Hi All.

We've had AT&T reps coming to us the past few weeks, proposing we move to their IP Flex service. The cost savings looks good on paper, but I'm curious as to how this is all going to work out.

The AT&T tech I've spoken with says that our Incoming bonded T1 at the main location, and standard T1 at our satellite office will connect to a Cisco 2800 series router, which will then connect to the 100DCD card. The translation of IP to "PRI" will take place on the router, and the merlin magix should work just fine.

Given the fact that our trunks are all currently analog POTS lines, I'm assuming there's going to be quite a bit of programming to be done at both sites on the merlins.

Has anyone ever heard/seen/worked with this type of setup, and could you maybe shed a little flicker of light as to what I'm looking forward to in regards to programming?

Thanks in advance.

Bryan

 

[msi12]

SYSQUEST

I've been using the copper that was setup for RAS backup in case Flex went down. Haven't got a chance to test the DID RAS.

I will let you know if it works.

 

[AndrePa]

MerlinMan is right. I work mostly with IP Office now, but I have never been sucessful in remotly logging in via WINSPM when VOIP was used in Magix. Voice is great with VOIP, it's clear, but data & fax do not! keep a few copper lines for fax & remote login, or emergency.

Andre

 

[merlinman]

So, I suppose we can say that we have reached the limits of just what VOIP can do.

Mr. Bell can now stop turning over in his grave.

But then again.....

http://home.comcast.net/~merlinman

 

[msi12]

SysQuest

The provider programmed the dedicated DID to uncompression.

I finally got a chance to test the RAS. It did not work.
The modem dialed into the switch ok. After entering the barrier code it did not produce a dial tone comfirmation.

After calling the provider,
I finally was able to get past the barrier code then enter the remote code. Dialing thru a phone, I could hear the modem tone at the remote side. But when I ran WinSPM, the password screen did not show. I can still hear the modem talking. After letting it stay running for 5 mins. I know its not working. --- At least I still have a backup copper RAS.

The last thing the provider did was they added another translation into the router to tell it to let star code pass thru to the PBX modem.

They also mention, if they knew how WinSPM was transmitting data with the remote modem they might be able to get it to work.

For now I'm just going to stop here and stay with copper as my RAS.

Good luck to all that are still trying to make it work.

 

[merlinman]

I am certain that the problem is caused by more than just 1 thing.

First off, the 1200/2400 Speed of the modem in the Processor.

Second, no error correction.

And perhaps just the fact that the VOIP stuff just cuts the pie too many ways, or said another way, it's just too good at digitizing (sampling) the signal, and not really good at filling in the blanks that creates.

With VOICE we can't hear a "cut up" signal being put back together because they do an adequate job of "rounding out" the digital sample to emulate something close to the original sine wave.

My theory on this is with the DATA signal, there is nothing to round out 'cause the modem is sending/receiving short bursts of unique tones, rather than a sine wave type of signal like the human voice puts out, and like the VOIP stuff is trying to rebuild as it does its thing.

That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.....

(I could be wrong, of course)

http://home.comcast.net/~merlinman

 

[bryandj23]

Merlinman...

I'll stick to the theory as well. Makes total sense to me.

 

[msi12]

My follow up with getting RAS to work with Flex T1.
Well, today I tried again to connect to the remote site and it worked. Just to make sure, I did it again. And no problem. Now I have 2 RAS backup. 1-copper and 1-DID

Good luck again

 

[bryandj23]

Well...

First off, I'm suprised this discussion went as long as it did. Alot of useful information from everyone. Thanks!

The owners of my company liked the numbers they saw, and so we're signed, committed, (probably ready to bend over, too) for IP Flex.

It's been interesting. Suddenly, the original AT&T team (sales first, then tech) are "moving to new positions", and we've been assigned new personnel; yet, we've yet to hear from any of them. Red Flag #1.

I've been (trying) to email our "technical advisor" as to the questions I have. Been waiting over a day and a half on one email, and 3 days on another. Red Flag #2.

AT&T's entire "team" (actually, sounds more like the team's breaking up) now emphasizes that faxing and modems will run over Flex, since they've upgraded their network in Feb. 2009.

That's where we stand on everything. I know I said I'd keep this up to date. Cheers all and have a great weekend

 

[Dexman]

Keep the updates comming.

If it ain't broke, I haven't fixed it yet.

 

[kelsjon3]

I installed IPFlex as a PRI into an IP Office last week. The customer's credit card machines would not work. AT&T's IP Flex support told me faxing "can" work, but modems are not supported.

Good luck!

 

[CarGoSki]

Eat voip and shut up!


The new generation of voip central office switches and site drop off have FAILED. Of couse unless email can replace a modem and fax.

 

[Dexman]

Of couse unless email can replace a modem and fax.

That seems to be the direction that the business world is moving. While I don't have any hard numbers, my guess is that the amount of data being transmitted by fax machines or fax servers is on the decline.

If it ain't broke, I haven't fixed it yet.

 

[bryandj23]

Very true. In fact, our current fax server has 4 lines on it because...well, at one time we faxed EVERYTHING. While the cost isn't astronomical, when you consider we were faxing documents in upwards of 30 or more pages (at times), if those calls were long distance, it all added up.

Almost everything we do now is via email...it's free (or, at least a flat rate through our ISP). I'm actually surprised that fax isn't dead yet. I'm sure in the next 5 years or so, we'll see faxing decline even more.

That said, once we move to IP Flex, we'll only have a single line (ooops...I mean "call path") for fax.

 

[Dexman]

It probably wouldn't hurt to keep 1 or 2 copper POTS lines for emergency use or a dedicated fax line if the fax machine won't work with the IP Flex. You could look over the various plans that the LEC offers and go with something that makes sense for minimal usage applications.

If it ain't broke, I haven't fixed it yet.

 

[SYQUEST]

Just to be clear, the fax modem is a MODEM!!! So whether it is a fax modem, a built-in fax modem, or a modem it is still a MODEM!! The only difference is that the fax modem has an extended command set to accommodate the fax protocol...

....JIM....

 

[msi12]

Not sure if this will help anyone.

Here is the translation ATT programmed into the Cisco router that made WinSPM talk to the PBX RAS.

-Set DID RAS number to uncompression
-Added rtp payload-type nse 99
-Added rtp payload-type nte 100
-Added description FAX Voip - extension xxxx
-Added incoming called-number 00000xxxx
-Added dtmf-relay rtp-nte
------------------------------------------------
Subject: modem dial peer

dial-peer voice 404 voip
description FAX Voip - extension xxxx
rtp payload-type nse 99
rtp payload-type nte 100
incoming called-number 00000xxxx
dtmf-relay rtp-nte
playout-delay nominal 250
playout-delay mode fixed
codec g711ulaw
fax protocol none
no vad

 

[SYQUEST]

I would have the configuration apply to all DID numbers in the block, that way there would be no problem on any DID number used. Especially if the client makes changes down the road.

Good information to have...

....JIM....

 

[soonerincali]

I installed an ipflex and the fax/credit card machines wouldn't work as well. ATT "said" that they changed the protocol from g.729 to g.711 and the fax/credit card machines worked fine after that.

 

[bryandj23]

Hi All. Sorry it's been so long for any updates. Let's just say that this entire implementation has turned into the biggest pile of crap that one could ever imagine. I don't even know where to begin. Let's start off with the absent-minded sales teams who pushed us through on this.

I had been questioning the sales person and her coheart (the "tech guy") about various things such as DID's, transfer capabilities between our two sites, various settings, etc just so that I could be damn sure this was going to work. After receiving numerous replies to the tune of "You're in good hands", and, "We'll make any changes necessary to work with your business", I decided to quit wasting my time fighting with these tools. I then changed my mindset to, "Hey, they're AT&T. They do this every day...the MUST know what they're doing". HA.

Sidenote; one of our Cisco routers on our point to point T1 that does both magix networking and ethernet networking between our two offices took a dump. This happened a week before our turn-up date to IP Flex, so I figured I might as well get the data portion of the IP Flex up and running, and configure a VPN tunnel across for data. Got that up and running no problem.

We come to our port date, and we have our phone tech (an ex AT&T employee) on site, just because when it comes to Dial Plan Routing, it's not my cup of joe. The plan was I was to worry about the data side, while he and his crew did voice at both locations.

Some questions arise from the phone tech, as to how calls are actually going to come in to the PBX, and how we'll be able to transfer calls through the IP Flex solution between the two offices. We finally get in touch with an AT&T "Engineer", who is conferenced in with our "Implementation Team". They become speechless when we ask how we're supposed to transfer calls between the two offices. Again, one more thing the original sales/design team did not take the time to consider when designing this solution from hell.

It's not until I mention to our "Technical Solutions Engineer" and our "Account Manager" that our phone system will allow transfers Outbound. I gave him the example that I could transfer his incoming call (that came to my extension) to my cell phone by simply hitting the TRANSFER button on my phone, dialing the outside access code, my cell phone number, and the transfer button once again. I could almost hear the sparks fly from all of the light bulbs that flicked on in his head. "You need a shit-ton of DID's", he said (in not so many words).

So, now here we are, with a set of DID's for both locations which will be "mapped" to Extension numbers for the entire system. Our new "turn up" date is set for January 15th. Stay tuned.

Oh - billing??? I swear there's a few red-nosed guys dressed up in polka-dot pants with big red curly hair throwing dice at the wall. "Yup, that looks like a good number". So far they figure we've racked up $5,000 worth of charges; yet we've only been utilizing the data services portion of IP Flex.

I apologize for the bitterness of my post, but I'm only reporting what is true.

 

[SYQUEST]

No apologies necessary! I have noticed kinks and cracks in the "AT&T" armor for a while... Your experience is welcome information. It provides good insight and caution for folks considering these types of changes to their clients networks.

Is this the AT&T Corp division, and not the LEC?

$5000 worth of charges for what?

....JIM....