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Are you cutting your telephony platform to Cisco? 1
- Thread starter adminman3
- Start date
ACS - IP Office Implement
ACA - IP Telephony Implement
CCNA - Cisco Certified Network Associate
MCP - Microsoft Certified Professional
marketingtools.avaya.com/knowledgebase <------ please check before posting questions on tek-tips
I like stars
Even if Cisco was the only one left then i still will nto use it!!!
I rather use smoke signals!
ACS IP Office
APSS IP Office
ACA - Implement IP Telephony -- ACA - Design IP Telephony
APSS UC
ACA - Voice Services Management
______________
Women and cats can do as they please and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea!
I rather use smoke signals!
ACS IP Office
APSS IP Office
ACA - Implement IP Telephony -- ACA - Design IP Telephony
APSS UC
ACA - Voice Services Management
______________
Women and cats can do as they please and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea!
I just went through this last summer. The client my company works for replaced all of the Avaya Phones with Cisco 7960's, running on a Call Manager version 4.2 cluster. They brought in a team of consultants to do all the programming and deployment.
If I had not been watching over them every step of the way, they would have missed all of our VDN's, Vectors and hunt groups. I asked them why these numbers (VDN's) weren't on the cut list, and they said there were no stations on my switch programmed with those numbers. To make my point, I had them dial one - used for password protecting a bridge line, to keep automated spam/telemarketer calls from getting through to the bridge. They asked how we were doing this. When I said VDN and Vector, they said "What's a VDN and Vector?"
Things Cisco can not do: Time of day routing; Holiday routing; Audio Streaming. We had to beg to get department hotlines that rang on everyone's phone, and had to have the "c-barge" feature turned on so that more than one person could be on a "shared line" simultaneously.
We are still using our Avaya switch to provide streaming audio of a couple of cable news channels. People with Cisco phones dial a number that stayed on the Avaya and listen through the speaker. Cisco simply can not do a live audio stream. Only audio files.
Know what you have, document everything, and watch them closely (assuming someone else is doing the conversion). Get training on the Cisco platform BEFORE converting. Or else on day one you'll be scratching your head trying to figure out how to fix the problems. And there will be problems.
There is absolutely nothing about my Cisco 7960 that is better than my Avaya 2420 or my 8434DX (which is still running on my desk, as it's MINE, not the company's, and will be running until they come in and unplug my Avaya switch).
- Duaneness
If I had not been watching over them every step of the way, they would have missed all of our VDN's, Vectors and hunt groups. I asked them why these numbers (VDN's) weren't on the cut list, and they said there were no stations on my switch programmed with those numbers. To make my point, I had them dial one - used for password protecting a bridge line, to keep automated spam/telemarketer calls from getting through to the bridge. They asked how we were doing this. When I said VDN and Vector, they said "What's a VDN and Vector?"
Things Cisco can not do: Time of day routing; Holiday routing; Audio Streaming. We had to beg to get department hotlines that rang on everyone's phone, and had to have the "c-barge" feature turned on so that more than one person could be on a "shared line" simultaneously.
We are still using our Avaya switch to provide streaming audio of a couple of cable news channels. People with Cisco phones dial a number that stayed on the Avaya and listen through the speaker. Cisco simply can not do a live audio stream. Only audio files.
Know what you have, document everything, and watch them closely (assuming someone else is doing the conversion). Get training on the Cisco platform BEFORE converting. Or else on day one you'll be scratching your head trying to figure out how to fix the problems. And there will be problems.
There is absolutely nothing about my Cisco 7960 that is better than my Avaya 2420 or my 8434DX (which is still running on my desk, as it's MINE, not the company's, and will be running until they come in and unplug my Avaya switch).
- Duaneness
- Thread starter
- #6
phoneguy55
Programmer
wow removing a S8730 CM5.2. Seems like a waste of money.
Replacing every pbx with a cisco is a waste of money big time 
ACS IP Office
APSS IP Office
ACA - Implement IP Telephony -- ACA - Design IP Telephony
APSS UC
ACA - Voice Services Management
______________
Women and cats can do as they please and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea!
ACS IP Office
APSS IP Office
ACA - Implement IP Telephony -- ACA - Design IP Telephony
APSS UC
ACA - Voice Services Management
______________
Women and cats can do as they please and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea!
-
1
- Thread starter
- #11
The rumors around here suggest that the network people want to go to Cisco simply to become a dedicated Cisco shop. We are presently on Cisco for all our Network switches and routers. Can there really be any rationale to move to Cisco from Avaya other than Avaya pricing us out of their product either with hard costs or maintenance fees?
On new construction, there could be, as you save on the cost of cabling (no dedicated drop for voice needed at each desk). In theory, there are cost savings if you send your voice traffic across your data network. I say "in theory" because I've never seen the actual savings documented - I've only seen projections. Once that call hits the PSTN, someone's got to be paying for it.
But then again, the same inter-office routing can be accomplished with the existing Avaya and a trunk to the data network, without shelling out hundreds of thousands of dollars in new hardware (servers, routers, phones).
- Duaneness
But then again, the same inter-office routing can be accomplished with the existing Avaya and a trunk to the data network, without shelling out hundreds of thousands of dollars in new hardware (servers, routers, phones).
- Duaneness
- Thread starter
- #14
I don't aspire to be the 'spoiler' for my company's plans, but I would love to read someone's study about the upside / downside of Cisco v Avaya.
I went to the INaau two years back and we saw the product comparison on end-user devices alone. Cadillac vs Impala in favor of Avaya. I see that we will lose several functions when going to Cisco. The rumor is that we will have to bulk up on additional servers which means more space allocation, more energy consumed, more potential points of failure.
Do you have some hard truth documentation to illustrate the reality of what we are about to experience?
I thank you for your posts.
I went to the INaau two years back and we saw the product comparison on end-user devices alone. Cadillac vs Impala in favor of Avaya. I see that we will lose several functions when going to Cisco. The rumor is that we will have to bulk up on additional servers which means more space allocation, more energy consumed, more potential points of failure.
Do you have some hard truth documentation to illustrate the reality of what we are about to experience?
I thank you for your posts.
Read this:
and
ACS IP Office
APSS IP Office
ACA - Implement IP Telephony -- ACA - Design IP Telephony
APSS UC
ACA - Voice Services Management
______________
Women and cats can do as they please and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea!
and
ACS IP Office
APSS IP Office
ACA - Implement IP Telephony -- ACA - Design IP Telephony
APSS UC
ACA - Voice Services Management
______________
Women and cats can do as they please and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea!
rustytelco
IS-IT--Management
I had installed (2) Avaya 8710 with 650 cabinets where we had digital, Analog and VOIP mixture. With the VOIP we had Cisco POE switches that had QOS. We were set up with one drop that was used by the phone and computer without issue.We also had 25 wireless Spectra Link IP phones that used Wireless Access points that covered 125,000 Sq/Ft of 2 story building.
One of the biggest reasons we stayed with Avaya was Cisco support was all 3rd party not direct.
One of the biggest reasons we stayed with Avaya was Cisco support was all 3rd party not direct.
We upgraded from an Definity G3 last year to dual S8730's and 5 G650 cabinets. If I had to do it all over again I would just go with Cisco. They're install couldn't of been any worse than ours was. Here it is almost 1 year later and we're still having major problems occassionally. The list is two long to even mention. Avaya's support is worthless since most of the best engineers don't stick around long. I've never used Cisco support but if its in the US and not Argentina or India like Avaya's I would consider myself lucky.
Our old G3 never game me any problems but with our new server its just been one problem after the other. Tech support for Avaya is the worse I've ever seen from any company.
Our old G3 never game me any problems but with our new server its just been one problem after the other. Tech support for Avaya is the worse I've ever seen from any company.
mikeydidit
IS-IT--Management
kjrnec
Like you a few years back I went to the S8710 servers from my ole reliable G3R. I would have never thought i would say that the servers are as reliable. But they have proven to be. I missed my G3 while i was trying to learn about the new servers. But looking back now I would not change a thing. I have a rock solid box that for the most part is really trouble free. Not saying that things don't happen, but rarely..
The thing that you need to focus on is what you will have after the bugs are worked out. Yes, with your Avaya they will be able to fix whatever the problems are. With Avaya you will have something that will last for years. With Cisco, you can plan on swapping out hardware and software about every three years (if not more ofter than that to fix things they don't know how to). Imagine going through that hell that often?? Also check out their interface for making changes vs. Avaya. It's a (well) not nearly as user friendly as you old G3 which is the same as you CM is now.
You need your BP to get the bugs out and replace anything that is still having problems. Good installs leave for trouble free systems. Bad installs well, end up bad... I would hound the hell out of my BP on an install full of bugs or problems. They would get everything straight so I would stop calling LOL.
If this is out of warranty, then look at the PCN.s or product correction notices. Look at known issue's and you can probably find answers to your problems with things that are documented. If not post a question on here and someone will more than likely be bale to point you in the right direction..
When is the last time you helped someone, just because you were able to?
For the best response to a question, read faq690-6594
Like you a few years back I went to the S8710 servers from my ole reliable G3R. I would have never thought i would say that the servers are as reliable. But they have proven to be. I missed my G3 while i was trying to learn about the new servers. But looking back now I would not change a thing. I have a rock solid box that for the most part is really trouble free. Not saying that things don't happen, but rarely..
The thing that you need to focus on is what you will have after the bugs are worked out. Yes, with your Avaya they will be able to fix whatever the problems are. With Avaya you will have something that will last for years. With Cisco, you can plan on swapping out hardware and software about every three years (if not more ofter than that to fix things they don't know how to). Imagine going through that hell that often?? Also check out their interface for making changes vs. Avaya. It's a (well) not nearly as user friendly as you old G3 which is the same as you CM is now.
You need your BP to get the bugs out and replace anything that is still having problems. Good installs leave for trouble free systems. Bad installs well, end up bad... I would hound the hell out of my BP on an install full of bugs or problems. They would get everything straight so I would stop calling LOL.
If this is out of warranty, then look at the PCN.s or product correction notices. Look at known issue's and you can probably find answers to your problems with things that are documented. If not post a question on here and someone will more than likely be bale to point you in the right direction..
When is the last time you helped someone, just because you were able to?
For the best response to a question, read faq690-6594
Having worked for some time with both Avaya and Cisco if you're purely talking about back-office functionality and not call centre then the biggest win for Cisco is the total cost of ownership, don't get me wrong I love my Avaya and if a client was looking to replace their call centre with Cisco I would have to advise them strongly against it. In terms of a back office solution however I think its pretty up there with Avaya. Cabling to the desk is one big cost win, as is support and development (most data guys can get their heads around CUCM - as can most Avaya guys!) I dont know about where you are but in my opinion Avaya are pricing themselves out of the market! Now if you're talking call centre....you would have to be as mad as a box of frogs to adopt CUCM, CVP, UCCE & ICM (how many boxes!!!) as opposed to ACM - for a start unless you spend many many millions on the new EA server it wont do true skills based routing, the reporting (previously latigent now packaged up as CUIS) is inaccurate and in no way user friendly (not like good old CMS!) and dont get me started on voice recording issues!
In all however I would say its horses for courses, if you want a low cost of ownership with good reliability and basic functionality then CUCM is hard to ignore, if you want call centre functionality (whether you consider yourself a call centre or not!) then I would always recommend Avaya regardless of the expense.
hope it helps!
In all however I would say its horses for courses, if you want a low cost of ownership with good reliability and basic functionality then CUCM is hard to ignore, if you want call centre functionality (whether you consider yourself a call centre or not!) then I would always recommend Avaya regardless of the expense.
hope it helps!
My two cents...my Firm is an Avaya shop. We considered going to Cisco but upper management put the brakes on that (thankfully). After I saw some of the back-end support, was not impressed and I came from a Siemens/Rolm background! In the end, it is not about just us peeps supporting the systems, it is about the end-user. And I cannot see where Cisco provides the level of features that Avaya does.
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