Are women paid less for IT jobs? 10

[Anniemn42]

Is it common to have women paid less in technical fields than men? What has your experience been?
While reviewing old files I found that the person I replaced was making more than I am now, two years later. He was fired for not meeting expectations. I have had two reviews with high marks in most categories, no items were less than satisfactory. In the time I've been with the company I installed two manufacturing wireless systems, a new POS, moved the network from frame relay to VPN, and managed to create management reporting tools. I have over 15 years experience in IT.

When asked what name to put on the new business card I replied: Goddess of Technology.

 

[kHz]

I do not get compensation for sick days. They do that for vacation (but I use that).

Nobody has addressed the child tax credit that I mentioned. The money has to be made up somewhere, the gov't just doesn't say okay it's gone. They shift it elsewhere. And people don't need to say it is expensive to have kids, yadda. As I said, my parents didn't have that tax credit and still raised three kids.

Family leave act. Don't get me wrong, if someone has a child that is great they can stay home for some weeks. But I am discriminated against, because I can't say I want the same equivalent time off and then come back to where I was.

Death in the family is covered the same for everyone (unless you're a VP or something, I suppose.)

Student loans. I can't deduct the loan interest because I make to much. Why am I penalized? So if I made $30,000/year I can deduct the interest, but not at what I make. It is a penalty for being somewhat successful. I went to college to have the possibility of a comfortable life and get penalized.

 

[lespaul]

So call in sick occasionally and take the time.


Leslie

 

[dkediger]

Well, if he's 39 and in the US, that means as a child his medical expenses, as well as everyone else's in the family, were 100% deductible by his parents. I believe this was in effect up until the late 70's early 80's. So yeah, they may not have had that specific tax credit, but credit was rolled in there nonetheless.

That money had to come from somewhere. When you were born, if your parents had been in the top 20% of wage earners at that time, your income tax bracket would have been 70%. Luckily, this rolled back to "just" 50% in 1981.

Things could be worse.

 

[Onyxpurr]

Wait a sec...when did this get into a tit for tat conversation??

I have co-workers, who have children, who get sick, and they take time off responsibly. They make sure they're work gets done and children taken care of. They take their sick time and most times I lose mine, but guess what?

I don't sit there and complain about them being allowed time off, or tax credits, and anything else that sets us apart.

They get the work done, doesn't hurt me. I didn't need the sick time anyway, so how am I hurt?

Sorry had to get that out.

However, should the time come, when I need time off (and it will happen) I hope they are a lot more caring than you. Work isn't just about work. It may have been in the past, but today's work environment recognizes that workers are human too. In order to have happy functioning employees, you need to give sick time and you need to understanding of personal situations as long as they don't adversely effect work.

Welcome to the new millenia!

 

[willir]

You know -- there is no right answer to this dilema. People will decide to fall on one side or the other, and very few will "sit on the fence".

Sick time, maternity leave, family commitments, career goals, cost of doing business, "glass ceilings", boy's club, in equity, pay equity, employment quotas, merit and skills, experience, innate abilities, etc. The list of dicussion points to this thread can go on and on.

But there is one point that has not been directly discussed which I feel is an important part of the mix.

From my perspective, for what it is worth, children are an investment in out future. Raising children takes time, money ... and a heck of lot of patience. When a society invests in support maternity leave, etc., they are investing in the future. When a business offers a daycare program on their premisis, again, they are investing in the future.

So how does this fit in with the title, Are women paid less for IT jobs? Well, by accepting women on par for their worth and merit with pay equity, in spite of the possible extra costs of the daycare-dash, missed (kids are sick) days, they endorse two points -- women are valuable in their role as an employee, and caregivers (male or female) are even more valuable to society as stuarts of our future.

Me? I am a single parent -- have been for ten years. And for ten years, I put my career in a holding pattern. Do I consider this lost time? Do I regret not being able to advance up the corporate ladder? No way, although I would have preferred that my wife had survived her bout with cancer, with conviction, I feel the time invested with my kids / in my kids was was absolutely necessary, and very rewarding.

From my perspective, the sad thing is that although women are making apparent great strides in pay equity, business and society now seem to be investing less in our children and less in our future. Gone are many of the on-site daycares, there is a trend to greatly reduce benefits, and the "one-shoe-fits-all" mentality all suggest to me that the short-term hunt for the bigger dollar may have a negative effect on our future.

 

[TruthInSatire]

I think there is something we're all forgetting.

Your initial pay rate is more or less decided on you, with a few factors of course. You have to prove to your employeer that you're worth that money in the interview. If you fail to do so that's your problem. If you don't sell yourself well, or can't prove you have enough experience or education, you're not likely to get a high initial pay rate.

However there is nothing saying in a couple years after prooving your worth to the company you can't renegotiate your pay rate based on "equal pay for equal work" or higher pay for exceptional work.

I started this position making x dollars a year. I started with a low salary because I have no higher education and little formal experience (hobbiest programmer). However i've proven myself enough to raise my salary by 16k in just 3 years. Yes i'm a male but i also do exceptional work.

If you don't ask the right questions, you don't get the right answers. A question asked in the right way often points to its own answer. Asking questions is the ABC of diagnosis. Only the inquiring mind solves problems.

-Quote by Edward Hodnett

 

[Stella740pl]

I think someone in the beginning already stated this or a similar point?

 

[TruthInSatire]

i saw a bit of sexism, lots of "time off work" posts, but a compariably small amount on merrit... i was expanding on merrit. Merrit is much more important than sex, and to a degree more than education and experience (after you can prove it). granted companies like to sell the business to customers by advertising "99% of our employees have BS's so we know how to do the job" and so on but not the point in this thread


If i'm an employeer i pay my valuable people more money to keep them reguardless of sex or race. any employeer that doesn't is bound to fail. if not fail, never be number 1. You need good people on your team do well. Loosing your best people because of skin color or ability to have children, by not paying them enough, is pure stupidity on the employers part. If any of you types are reading this i hope you're offended.

If you don't ask the right questions, you don't get the right answers. A question asked in the right way often points to its own answer. Asking questions is the ABC of diagnosis. Only the inquiring mind solves problems.

-Quote by Edward Hodnett

 

[lespaul]

Ok, you have two people working for you in the same capacity. One's a married man with 2 children and the other is a married woman with 2 children. If the man's children are sick, how often do you think he's going to be the one to call in saying he has to stay home and take care of the kids? If the woman's children are sick, do you think her husband will be the one to call in? How often are the mothers going to call in with sick kids?

How many single fathers like Willir are there that have the dedication and the caring to put their careers on hold to be a good dad? How many single mothers do it?

We have become so accustomed to the mother having to take care of the kids that a lot of men don't think they have to do much with their kids (as far as the care goes, lots of dads are good at spending time with their kids - playing, rough-housing, sports, etc., but that's not the same as caring for them when they have needs like illness, potty training, diaper changing, sleepless nights, etc.). Most of the burden is on the mothers.


Leslie

 

[dkediger]

Within my family - we alternate taking days off for sick children - adjusted as needed for important work events.

 

[lespaul]

I'm as lucky as you, my husband has a very flexible schedule and most of the time, he's the one who stays home (and they are his step-children!). One of my co-workers and her husband alternate as well, but I think we are the exception not the rule.

I work in a courthouse and most of our employees are clerks of differing classifications. 76.6% of our employees are women and a LOT of those are single mothers. I know they have real issues with child care and all of them have issues with taking time off to take care of their sick kids.

Leslie

 

[spamly]

Whatever happened to equal pay for equal work?

The year off shouldn't matter, however work ethic and quality should.

This confuses me. Are you saying that a talented individual right out of college (just entering the workforce) should be paid the same as an equally talented individual with 20 years of experience? All things equal, I'd like to hope that a company rewarded longevity/loyalty as well as competency. What do you all think?

I'm sure we'd all love to get paid based only on what we accomplish, but this isn't always fair for a number of reasons. If one takes extended time off work for any reason, it is typically costing the company something.

I once had a commander in the military that stated frequently, "If an airman can take a month off of work, we don't need him." In his ineloquent way he was trying to say that if we can manage successfully a month without a worker, we can probably manage indefinitely with out him. I disagree with his simple-minded views for a number of obvious reasons. His attitude, though, isn't uncommon.

 

[grepper]

If you are good enought, you can take all the time you want to within reason.

My wife is a perfect example; we are expecting a child any day now and she plans on taking some time off. This is ok with her direct report because for the past 7 years she has shown how valuable she is to the company. She has made it perfectly clear what she brings to the table and if anyone tries to argue with this, she can point directly to the value she has added to the company. There is no question that for at least in the short term they will suffer greatly without her. She can take sometime off because, I can proudly say, she can out think, out work, and out perform just about anyone in her office and they are very aware of that fact. They are willing to bend over backwards for her because of this. This is also a huge fortune 500 company where it’s hard to get anything noticed. We both doubt she will get anything more than the basic 3-5% pay raise this year because she is taking sometime off. We have no problem with this because we understand that having a child is our choice and our company shouldn't have to compensate because of it. But I wouldn’t be surprised that she goes beyond 5% because of her performance before and after her leave. We both work hard and add value to our companies. They have no problem being flexable when we it.

If you cannot honestly say that the company is better today than it was yesterday partly because of you, then don’t be surprised if you don’t get a big pay raise if you take some time off, man or women. And better doesn’t mean you maintained expectations, better means you exceeded all expectations.

Btw fellas.... we both work for fortune 500 companies, both 4 year college degrees, both about the same amount of time in our profession. She makes 20k more a year than I do!

 

[Onyxpurr]

Are you saying that a talented individual right out of college (just entering the workforce) should be paid the same as an equally talented individual with 20 years of experience?"


If they have equal talent and quality of work...yes! I really don't think longevity has anything to do with amount paid, regardless of sex.

I can certainly understand having more time off because of longevity, but more pay?

What is the incentive for doing a better job if you know that longevity is the only way you'll make more?

Also, I have seen some workers that, in the same position, can be more talented than some with longer years of experience in the field. And vice-versa.

 

[spamly]

If they have equal talent and quality of work...yes! I really don't think longevity has anything to do with amount paid, regardless of sex.

I can certainly understand having more time off because of longevity, but more pay?"

That's an interesting response. I was assuming that time off was a form of payment. I suppose we were interpreting my post differently.

 

[Nuffsaid]

Hi Everyone,

First post in this forum.

Here comes the curve ball…………

“Stress Leave”, is it warranted?
What are the repercussions?

I’d like to hear from both management
and employees.

Nuffsaid.

 

[Stella740pl]

Nuffsaid,

You, probably, nead thread654-889600. This one has a different topic.

 

[Nuffsaid]

Thx


Nuffsaid.

 

[pathetic]

Are you kidding, maternity leave? Not even a week after giving birth the phone was ringing... I ended up working thorough the remainder of my "leave" but was able to negotiate extending my leave for every hour worked. Business is a whole new ballgame, filled with negotiation opportunities. If you are dissatisfied with your wages/benefits/working situation then you really need to move on and find a more acceptable arrangement. And opportunities are out there. It is a fact that women continue to be compensated at a lower rate than men but you have to make things happen for yourself, and you can! I don't have a college degree, but I have invested time and money into other educational avenues that have paid off quite nicely. I am doing very well in an industry and position that is historically and predominantly male. Go get what you deserve... it's waiting for you!

 

[Onyxpurr]

I think pathetic has a point. If all women (or anyone for that matter) stood up for what they believe they should be reasonably compensated for, we might not have this issue.

Any and every woman who settles for less, is only making it difficult for other women, in addition to herself.