Are copyright violations ever ethical? 17

[KornGeek]

This applies to music, software, etc. This seems like the answer would obviously be "no", but considering how common copyright violations have become, it would seem that some people feel copyright violations are ethical at least part of the time.

I would like to avoid discussions about the legality of this and also about the definition of "ethics" if possible. I'm trying to determine how we decide when it is OK to ignore somebody's copyright (because almost all of us have at some point or another). Or, if it is never ethical, the when is it OK to ignore our ethics?

I'll withhold my opinions for now, because I'm still trying to decide these answers for myself.

 

[skiflyer]

Yeah, and in other news... statistics have been discarded over the charm of anecdotal evidence.

-Rob

 

[diogenes10]

cdogg
Customer dictation of pricing is alive and well in america. In business it's simply a matter of size. big customers can do it, little ones cant. eBay, garage sales, etc -- it happens every day.

 

[cdogg]

diogenes10,
I think you've misinterpreted my statement. I don't want to get into the macro- or microeconomics of the market, particularly dealing with supply and demand. It is obvious that demand from the consumer (you and I) drive the market and ultimately affect price.

However, my point was that the manufacturer (the creator) has the right to choose what to charge regardless of whether he/she/they want to follow supply & demand. It should not be the expectation of the consumer to have control over this price, with the exception of "boycotting". In other words, it would be wrong for you and I to steal this product in hopes that prices will be forced to drop to meet demand.

Now bringing in Ebay, garage sales, or other forms of re-selling is not the same thing. That is not direct from the manufacturer in most cases, and is far from the topic of digital media.

__________________________________________________

~cdogg
[tab]"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources"
[tab][tab]- A. Einstein

 

[Stevehewitt]

Sorry,

<Rant>

What are you talking about!

&quot; It should not be the expectation of the consumer to have control over this price&quot;

I expect it! I would never ever go onto Napster (or what ever it is now) and download an album. Its unethical in my opnion.

Now my mate does download the odd song. And I believe that this does the industry good. I agree with KornGeek. My pal recently heard a song on the Radio. He downloaded a different song his and he liked it. So he brought the entire album. If he didn't do this then the sale wouldn't of been made.

Like in my 1st post, I wouldn't do it; but KornGeek has a very valid point. I refuse to pay £4 - £5 for a single. I want one song. I purchase albums only, the problem is I don't have a radio in my office - so I don't really know what is on what album. In the end the RIAA and the manufactures will loose out. They are getting less of my money, and I am staying legal.

</Rant>

Thanks!

Steve Hewitt

 

[cdogg]

Steve,
You are addressing two points, so let's break them up.

1) You agree that downloading an entire album is unethical.

2) You disagree that downloading a single song is unethical, especially when you decide to purchase the album.


I only agree with 2) if you either purchase the album or delete the song. It would be unethical IMO to keep the song just because you disagree with prices charged to buy a single.


~cdogg
[tab]&quot;The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources&quot;
[tab][tab]- A. Einstein

 

[sleipnir214]

Stevehewitt:
<sarcasm>
They are getting less of my money, and I am staying legal.

That, then, would be the &quot;boycott&quot; thing cdogg mentioned, right?
</sarcasm>


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[Stevehewitt]

LOL, I suppose. But that is in my personal case. People who are doing what my mate is (downloading the odd single he likes the look of - and if he like he will purchase the album.) are not boycotting it at all. Also, wouldn't boycotting count if I decided just to steal music from the web? I am still refusing to purchase it.

Steve Hewitt

 

[Grenage]

No you wouldn't be boycotting their products then, you would just be gaining them illegaly.

 

[dwarfthrower]

Interesting thread... I wonder how many of us would suffer an ethical crisis taping a song off the radio... or setting the VCR to record a 'The Blues Brothers'... Either way we end up with something we didn't pay for (beyond whatever media we recorded onto).

 

[sleipnir214]

dwarfthrower:
Ah, but there's no ethical question in your two specific cases, at least in the U.S.

Your cases are specific examples of what is considered fair use.

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TANSTAAFL!!

 

[dwarfthrower]

Fair use down under too... I guess my (hypothetical) point would be: &quot;Why is recording 'South Park' on my VCR considered Fair Use while downloading the same episode from a p2p network could get me fined or otherwise punished?&quot;

 

[sleipnir214]

For the same reason that you can record a show from TV and watch it, but you cannot legally give or sell that recording of the show to someone else.

When a show is broadcast, you have been given a license to view that particular broadcast of the show. But you have not been given license to transfer the intellectual property to another.

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TANSTAAFL!!

 

[sleipnir214]

The idea of fair use has also been applied to dubbing vinyl albums to cassette tape.

Although there has been no explicit legal statement in favor of it, I have considered my ripping my purchased CDs to my MP3 player to also be fair use.

But the minute I take one of my MP3s and start giving it away, I'm no longer within the extent of fair use.


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[dwarfthrower]

>> but you cannot legally give or sell that recording of the show to someone else.

So you're saying that if I was to give (not sell) my recorded-from-tv copy of some movie to someone you wouldn't consider that fair use?

 

[sleipnir214]

Under the law, that is not part of fair use.


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[dwarfthrower]

Indeed... But in this case the law is at best inconsistent. If there is no restriction on Person B taping an episode of 'The Sopranos' to watch later. And there is no restriction on Person A doing the same thing. Why should there be a restriction on Person A recording the episode for Person B?

 

[sleipnir214]

In terms of the law, neither A nor B has an unrestricted license. And the limited license each has is not transferrable to the other.

In terms of practical application of the law, the Copyright Police are not going to bust down your door and arrest you simply because you've done a favor for a friend. But technically, you have made a tape under fair use of your license to the work. Give the tape to a friend, and you are in violation of your license.


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TANSTAAFL!!

 

[CajunCenturion]

The operative that applies dwarfthrower in your situation is that Person A is doing something for Person B. You have, through the fair use provisions, some limited uses of copyrighted material for your own personal non-commercial use. Recording for someone else is clearly outside that line, because your actions are not for yourself, but for someone else.



Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[dwarfthrower]

Yep, clearly illegal... I must have misread the title of the thread, could have sworn it said ethical.