Are computers simply too complicated for common use 5

[guestgulkan]

Compared to other household hi-tec equipment, the computer is far and away the most complicated and convuluted to use and probably the most unreliable.

The everyday home computer user does not want to worry about
stuff like operating systems, drivers, and service pack downloading, etc..
He she/wants to take it home, plug it in and have it work
(like the hi-fi, satellite TV, and dare I say it - video recorder).

A lot of computers must end up as expensive oversized paper weights or are resold soon after purchase when it becomes clear that they are a lot more complicated to use than advertised (and probably a lot less interesting).

 

[Tarwn]

Blame it on the Unix people, always has to be a shorter command to type or key to press

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[sup]29 3K 10 3D 3L 3J 3K 10 32 35 10 3E 39 33 35 10 3K 3F 10 38 31 3M 35 10 36 3I 35 35 10 3K 39 3D 35 10 1Q 19[/sup]
Do you know how hot your computer is running at home? I do

http://www.tiernok.com/hscripts/systemp.asp

 

[ghijkl]

It is coz there is not yet a language which sits comfortably between people and computers. One day we will view these threads as quaint.

 

[PeterUser]

guestgulkan:

Well, I am sure that might be the case in your experience and maybe for a lot of people, however it is not the case with my friend.

He is an network administrator at a HUGE company and is really very knowledgable.

Like I said, he not only instructs me on things, but explains why and even will show me documentation and such backing what he says (also so I can read more on any particular subject after he gives me a basic premise).

I am really fortunate and blessed to have such a patient and experienced friend.

PeterUser

 

[SweetBlend]

I don’t think computers are to hard to use, just as anything in life, if you take some time to learn something, then you reap the benefits.
Those ppl who just expect to plug and go, are of course the ppl we IT ppl cater too. While indeed I have gotten away with telling ppl it is a 1D10T error. I believe a person is smart its people who are stupid.
Computers will get smaller and smaller, where it can be placed almost anywhere like a portable cd-player, so small and so easily misplaced

I can see the helpdesk calls now "where did I put my computer? i cant find it "
hehehe
I personally think that the world is going to be a very different place in the next 5 too 10 years why ?
All of the baby boomers are going to be heading south, and retire. These are the people while in very high places of influence aided but also hindered advancement. We as humans fear what we do not know or don’t want to. Take the seti project for example, when it first started out it was full of life and energy, but all it took was a few ppl in the government to cut the funds and almost wipe out the seti project.
This technology is meant to free man, not enslave it. While we are more dependent on machines. Lets just we all hope we don’t end up like the matrix, the architect of our own demise

XxDarkDragonxX

 

[Grenage]

I agree.

Computers are a relatively new thing and in 10 years time we won't have this problem (at least I hope, to the extent it is now)

 

[AIXSPadmin]

People still can't use a VCR correctly or to its full extent, Grenage, and they are more than 10 years old.

 

[Grenage]

This is very true, although they don't teach you VCR's in school

That said I don't imagine schools teach past MS word so point taken.

 

[vbSun]

The differences in OSs, Changes in softwre UI, Advancement of technology, everything contributes to the complexity of the instrument in which i spend most of my time. Even I am afraid of the coming years, if i dont continue learning and grasp things from around, i will be placed some where in the packing section in my company..

The point is, technology is fast evolvng, changing a lot day by day, so that even people who spend a lot of time in front of computers have to spend some time deliberately to learn, to be in their chairs..

But as Cajun said, from our side, am a programmer, there should be an effort to keep the standards. But will that be a self imposed barrier for advancement? It could well be..

One incident before a fullstop..
My Dad, who is a Civil Engineer, came to see my brand new PC, a couple of years before. I displayed all the features, tried to tell a lot about the "Super Human" capabilties of a computer, played some mpegs and mp3s to him..

Finally he asked the dreaded question...
"Where do i change the channel???" !!!!!!!

Sunil

 

[guestgulkan]

Your story exactly illustrates my point exactly vbSun

Even highly educated and intelligent people are flummoxed by computers.
That's why I used the term common use rather than common man in the thread title.

Some people just can't seem to get their heads around computers - the same way some people will never be able to drive a car 'properly'.

 

[ghijkl]

"Some people just can't seem to get their heads around computers - the same way some people will never be able to drive a car 'properly'."

Most anybody who wants to drive a car 'properly' can learn just by doing a couple of advanced driving courses.
There is no such succinct "advanced driving" course for software, so the people who would be proficient are denied entry. Anybody capable of passing fourth grade algebra is quite capable of understanding the essence of software, and should be able to apply that understanding to the solution of their own software requirements.

 

[Tarwn]

fourth grade algebra?
I was in some advanced math classes, but even I didn't get algebra courses until 6th grade...

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http://www.tiernok.com/

The never-completed website

 

[AIXSPadmin]

I noticed that too, fourth grade algebra. Unless, you are a math prodigy and taking math in middle school while in the fourth grade, algebra isn't offered at the lower grades.

 

[vbSun]

May be this is the point to accept the fact. Yes I feel Computers are too complicated for common use. Why? think with me..

Much of the common appliances we are comparing the computer to are meant for simple and a single functions. Just as we cant use a calculator to watch a movie. Since there are a multitude of scenario where we can implement a computer and avail its services, I myself feel doubtful whether I know the complete usage of a computer. When we have one machine, that can do numerous things, it is bound to be complex..

People usually have a tendency to compare new things to somthing that they know about, just like if I buy a brand new MP3 player, i'll expect it to work it as my old CD player, and if i get it first hand, i will surely try the actions i do with my old CD player. Well, that can be weird for someone who knows inside out of an MP3 player.. But, computer is far far away in the services that it can offer, compared to any other appliances that we have around.

Sunil

 

[ghijkl]

"Unless, you are a math prodigy"
Certainly not - just cant remember that far back!
But the analogy stands, IMO.
There are a couple of fundamentals in algebra which do not change no matter how complex the problem may be. Once these are grasped, whatever that really means, one feels that any algebraic problem is solvable. Until you progress to higher maths which is irrelevant for most people.
Programming is like that - there are only one or a few fundamentals to grasp. Once grasped they can be used to produce whatever functionality is required. Yet it takes years of study to be considered proficient enough in IT to start as a trainee in the real world. Something is drastically wrong.

 

[CajunCenturion]

I find it interesting how we've gone from "computers too complicated" to "proper driving", through "4th grade algebra", on our way to a "only one or a few programming fundamentals". Nothing wrong with it, just interesting how it's flowing.

When someone says they teachcomputers in school, what does that mean? Never mind, save that for another thread.

Perhaps ghijkl you like to enlighten us on what are the only one or a few fundamentals to grasp for programming.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[ghijkl]

Well yes i would like to enlighten you, but because the industry is so vast abd so fragmented, my particular summary would not (probably) work for you without a fair bit of background on where it comes from and what it means.
I will give my view if i can, and i would like to see other people's views here. Like Carbon Kid's view - i reckon he has something geled there.
My view is this -
Two things -


1. I express my personal "object" definition in this form -
Result = Process(Data)
which, for my purposes, says that any instance of processdom can be viewed as an action named by "Process" which may be given a set of values named by "Data" and which will perform the named action which may or may not return a set of values named by "Result" to the caller.


2. And my design guideline is
What, not how
Simple - if you are designing and find you are thinking how, start thinking what you are trying to do. It encourages me to think in an objective orientated manner.

That is all.
But egoless programming, a continuing improvement philosophy in code and design and their integration, and many other things are important.


But the most important thing in programming is the objective in the first place. My personal objective is to produce a system which works and stays working and which can evolve through the constantly changing environment.

 

[greyted]

All,
Original question was, "Are computers simply too complicated for common use."
When the average Home computer user purchases their system it is normally for a certain purpose of use, be it email, photography or games.
Having worked for a few years (more than I care to remember) on home based computers it is abundantly clear that the majority of users do not know programming or have any inclination to learn.
Some people do get very interested in how their system functions. One points them in the correct direction with the suitable reading material and hopefully they will learn.
Actually there are a lot of programmers who work from their homes and children learn at an early age from these people.
In my area of the UK the age range of people who are taking computer courses is from the teens to eighty plus years.
My answer would be yes computers are complicated but my experience shows that people are willing to learn if the educational facilities are available to them. In fact some of the cleverest people in IT that I have encountered started in this profession by accident.




Ted

Proofread carefully to see if you any words out

 

[guestgulkan]

I'm not specifically talking about programs side of things.
Let's see - a novice has just bought a computer, takes it home and opens the box - what does he see.

An array of connectors for a start, 1 (or 2) serial ports, a 25 pin 'D type' Parallel port ( is it a standard parallel port or is it ECP or EPP) not to be confuesed with a similar looking SCSI port.

One or two PS2 ports, or maybe one PS2 port and an old fashion DIN keyboard port.

Some USB ports.

Is that the other thing the RJ11 modem port or is it the RJ45 ethernet port?

Two 15 pin ports - what are they for? Oh yeah this looks like the monitor lead plugs in it - what's the other one then?

Is the CDROM read only, is it DVD compatible, is it a rewritable??

How/where do I plug my speakers in.

I see two power type sockets (one mail one female). What now?

All very confusing if you don't know - and you haven't even plugged in yet (and you won't until you go down to the local hardware store and get a 6 outlet power strip - computer & monitor& printer & speakers & scanner.)

 

[CajunCenturion]

With today, most things being nicely color coded.

guestgulkan - Have you ever spend a few hours assembling a child's toy, you know the ones that say "Easy Assembly - Only need a screwdriver" clearly on the box?

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[jack1955]

guestgulkan - Have you ever spend a few hours assembling a child's toy, you know the ones that say "Easy Assembly - Only need a screwdriver" clearly on the box?

I believe the screwdriver they speak of is the beverage.

If these computers are so easy to figure out, then why is the "stop computer" and "shutdown computer" under the "start" button? If Microsoft can't do it right...