In regards, to the all the certifications out there, I am wondering are they really that important when it comes to getting a job as a IT. To date I only have 1 cert, MCP in Windows2k, and while I dont have certs in anything else, I do have about 6 years experience in the field. So, my question is, do most companies base there hiring decisions on how many cert you have, or are there any that base there decsision either that or what you know?
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Are certs really nessessary to be successful in the IT world?
- Thread starter slycer
- Start date
mrdenny
Programmer
- May 27, 2002
- 11,595
Certs won't get you a job these days, but they will give you an edge, and can help keep you in the running. During the dot com boom, people that have no idea what they are doing went out and got there certs (so did many people that know what they are doing, so no one yell at me). At this point, those people have 6-10 years "experience" working, and that cert. If you and one of these people is up for the same job, and you both interview fine, one of the next things that it may end up comming down to is that they have there MCSE, and you don't.
An MCSE, MCSA, MCDBA, MCSD, etc are also a good way to get your resume past the HR monkey that is the first person to see your resume. They can kill your resume right there, and if they see these magic letters on your resume, you've got a better chance of getting past them.
These days an MCP doesn't mean all that much. When you pull up your transcript on Microsoft's web site, it doesn't say what OS level your MCP is for. These days all you have to do is pass any one test (with the exception of Exam 70-058: Networking Essentials) and you've got your MCP. This encludes the other new help desk exams.
Denny
--Anything is possible. All it takes is a little research. (Me)
![[noevil]](/data/assets/smilies/noevil.gif "[noevil] [noevil]")
An MCSE, MCSA, MCDBA, MCSD, etc are also a good way to get your resume past the HR monkey that is the first person to see your resume. They can kill your resume right there, and if they see these magic letters on your resume, you've got a better chance of getting past them.
These days an MCP doesn't mean all that much. When you pull up your transcript on Microsoft's web site, it doesn't say what OS level your MCP is for. These days all you have to do is pass any one test (with the exception of Exam 70-058: Networking Essentials) and you've got your MCP. This encludes the other new help desk exams.
Denny
--Anything is possible. All it takes is a little research. (Me)
NickFerrar
MIS
As mrdenny says, they're as much about getting a foot in the door as anything. If an IT vacany gets 300 apps, they need to filter a lot of those before the IT manager (or whoever) goes through them in detail to get s short-list for interview. Likely criteria they'll filter on are certifications and experience. If 100 people have both certs and exp and you only have exp it's unlikely you'd even get an interview, even though you may be able to do the job as well as anyone else.
Also some roles, such as mine own, involve consultancy to clients and having certified people is an easy way to say "we know what we're talking about" and then prove it later during the project. Clients expect the best when they're paying a lot of money and often that means having certs (again this is more about perception than fact).
Finally MS Partner agreements require you have a certain number of certified people to qualify, if you're replacing someone who was certified in a company that's an MS Partner then they'll need you to have a certification.
Also some roles, such as mine own, involve consultancy to clients and having certified people is an easy way to say "we know what we're talking about" and then prove it later during the project. Clients expect the best when they're paying a lot of money and often that means having certs (again this is more about perception than fact).
Finally MS Partner agreements require you have a certain number of certified people to qualify, if you're replacing someone who was certified in a company that's an MS Partner then they'll need you to have a certification.
slycer,
Just to throw in my own two cents...the certifications on your resume will probably get the attention of the "HR monkey" who knows nothing about the skills necessary to do the job. This will probably get you an interview as most HR people (or primates) figure it must mean something.
Once you get to the interview, the person you interview with is more likely to have some technical knowledge than anyone in HR. In the interview, your knowledge and experience are what matter, not the certifications.
It's all about getting the interview. The rest, as they say, is how well you sell yourself.
Wishdiak
Just to throw in my own two cents...the certifications on your resume will probably get the attention of the "HR monkey" who knows nothing about the skills necessary to do the job. This will probably get you an interview as most HR people (or primates) figure it must mean something.
Once you get to the interview, the person you interview with is more likely to have some technical knowledge than anyone in HR. In the interview, your knowledge and experience are what matter, not the certifications.
It's all about getting the interview. The rest, as they say, is how well you sell yourself.
Wishdiak
What is successful? do you mean money? position? power? Bill Gates and Michael Dell have neither degrees nor certs...
Success is internally defined by each of us. In my case, certs helped me get and keep my current position... So for me, certs are necessary to success, yes...
YMMV. Greatly.
JTB
Have Certs, Will Travel
"A knight without armour in a [cyber] land."
Success is internally defined by each of us. In my case, certs helped me get and keep my current position... So for me, certs are necessary to success, yes...
YMMV. Greatly.
JTB
Have Certs, Will Travel
"A knight without armour in a [cyber] land."
dallascorpio
MIS
I say the best is to get an old fashioned college degree. It will last a lifetime and never expire. Certs only last for a few years before they become obsolete. If you do get some certs go for the ones that offer the most money and in demand. Dont waste time on an MCSE only to get offers for 12.00 bucks an hour when an MCDBA makes 25.00 an hour starting out.
- Thread starter
- #7
An excellent topic,
In the IT industry there is nothing better than an experienced IT professional that holds key knowledge of his or her job.
What I see is a problem is the recruitment people, they only look for certs, then after look at your experience...
you must have a combination of the two IMO.
I have been working in IT for 5 years, mainly in Networking, Desktop and Server builds. To help me on my way I have gained certs in A+, Server+, Novell, CCNA and on my way to an MCSE 2003.
I feel i need the MCSE ffor when I move on to my next job, I want to get the best I can from this industry!
In the IT industry there is nothing better than an experienced IT professional that holds key knowledge of his or her job.
What I see is a problem is the recruitment people, they only look for certs, then after look at your experience...
you must have a combination of the two IMO.
I have been working in IT for 5 years, mainly in Networking, Desktop and Server builds. To help me on my way I have gained certs in A+, Server+, Novell, CCNA and on my way to an MCSE 2003.
I feel i need the MCSE ffor when I move on to my next job, I want to get the best I can from this industry!
maverick15
IS-IT--Management
Hey Laseruk81,
I read your post and found that I am in the same field as you are. i.e Networking, desktop and server build. I am with Lockheed Martin Information Technology. Now since I found you in my field, you will be the best person to answer my query.
I have a work experience of 6 months in above said job only and have no certification, simply nothing. But I am BEngg in Electronics engg. and MS in Electronics Engg. Just landed up in a diff field and now I want to learn about this field. Can you tell me what should be my first step towards certification that will be helpful to me. I am good learner. Whether I should take A+ or server + or should directly approach towards CCNA or MCSE whichever is good both jobmarket wise and difficulty wise. If MCSE than which MCSE2003 or MCSE2000. Well I have hand on experience on building 2000 servers and XP Desktop workstations. Please let me know what is suitable for me. Thanks. Response by all memebers is kindly invited.
I read your post and found that I am in the same field as you are. i.e Networking, desktop and server build. I am with Lockheed Martin Information Technology. Now since I found you in my field, you will be the best person to answer my query.
I have a work experience of 6 months in above said job only and have no certification, simply nothing. But I am BEngg in Electronics engg. and MS in Electronics Engg. Just landed up in a diff field and now I want to learn about this field. Can you tell me what should be my first step towards certification that will be helpful to me. I am good learner. Whether I should take A+ or server + or should directly approach towards CCNA or MCSE whichever is good both jobmarket wise and difficulty wise. If MCSE than which MCSE2003 or MCSE2000. Well I have hand on experience on building 2000 servers and XP Desktop workstations. Please let me know what is suitable for me. Thanks. Response by all memebers is kindly invited.
SimonDavies
MIS
Just to add something from over in the UK.
First I will tell you that I have been working in IT since 1997, I am 34 years of age and a successful IT Contractor, by successful I mean this, I have been lucky in that all of my contracts have been over 6 months, infact over 9 months. In general I have found that my contracts last in the region of 18 months.
Now to the bad part.
Prior to my current contract (which finishes in 3 weeks time.. at the 9 month point) I was told I didn't have enough experience on new technologies, what the recruiters actually meant was that I didn't have enough up to date certs.
As a note to you all here are my current list of certs.
CNE Intranetware 4.11
MCSE+Internet NT4
CCNA (507)
I obviously also have CNA's (two actually, 3.12 and Intranetware), MCP's and a ton of networking\desktop experience, I have done Network Design, Security design (I actually designed and implemented a secure desktop environment for a Pharmaceutical) yet I am still lacking in experience.... apparently.
I have worked for Pharmaceuticals, Investment Banks, Insurance Brokers and Major Worldwide Charities but I still lack experience.... apparently.
Now I can honestly say hand on heart that I don't lack experience, I lack up to date certification.
I believe that to be truely successful in the IT industry you need both certification and experience, it's no good having one without the other because unfortunately there are others out there who do have both, and those people will get the position over someone who doesn't everytime.
I know what it's like in the industry, it's very cut throat. You have to be good at your job to survice, especially as a contractor (I have been doing it for over 5 years now).
Sure there are things you forget, but if you have an idea where to look, what the fundementals are, you're more likely to survive.
I am about to endeavour on a 3 month long training plan, this will involve me doing my MCSE2003 certification, with both Security and Messaging components, CCNA and CCNP (current CCNA is expired) and my certified ethical hacker course. My aim is to prove to people that not only do I have the experience but also the upto date certifications.
For those people who wonder if it's worth doing certifications I have this to ask, do you want to be good at your job and be able to prove it ahead of actually getting the job?
Being able to pass the current MCSE isn't easy, far less so than the NT4 track, a lot of paper MCSE's are finding it alot harder to certify these days, which is a good thing for those who want to succeed.
Yes, it is important to be both certified and experienced. Anyone telling you otherwise isn't successful... or they have been extremely lucky in their jobs to date.
First I will tell you that I have been working in IT since 1997, I am 34 years of age and a successful IT Contractor, by successful I mean this, I have been lucky in that all of my contracts have been over 6 months, infact over 9 months. In general I have found that my contracts last in the region of 18 months.
Now to the bad part.
Prior to my current contract (which finishes in 3 weeks time.. at the 9 month point) I was told I didn't have enough experience on new technologies, what the recruiters actually meant was that I didn't have enough up to date certs.
As a note to you all here are my current list of certs.
CNE Intranetware 4.11
MCSE+Internet NT4
CCNA (507)
I obviously also have CNA's (two actually, 3.12 and Intranetware), MCP's and a ton of networking\desktop experience, I have done Network Design, Security design (I actually designed and implemented a secure desktop environment for a Pharmaceutical) yet I am still lacking in experience.... apparently.
I have worked for Pharmaceuticals, Investment Banks, Insurance Brokers and Major Worldwide Charities but I still lack experience.... apparently.
Now I can honestly say hand on heart that I don't lack experience, I lack up to date certification.
I believe that to be truely successful in the IT industry you need both certification and experience, it's no good having one without the other because unfortunately there are others out there who do have both, and those people will get the position over someone who doesn't everytime.
I know what it's like in the industry, it's very cut throat. You have to be good at your job to survice, especially as a contractor (I have been doing it for over 5 years now).
Sure there are things you forget, but if you have an idea where to look, what the fundementals are, you're more likely to survive.
I am about to endeavour on a 3 month long training plan, this will involve me doing my MCSE2003 certification, with both Security and Messaging components, CCNA and CCNP (current CCNA is expired) and my certified ethical hacker course. My aim is to prove to people that not only do I have the experience but also the upto date certifications.
For those people who wonder if it's worth doing certifications I have this to ask, do you want to be good at your job and be able to prove it ahead of actually getting the job?
Being able to pass the current MCSE isn't easy, far less so than the NT4 track, a lot of paper MCSE's are finding it alot harder to certify these days, which is a good thing for those who want to succeed.
Yes, it is important to be both certified and experienced. Anyone telling you otherwise isn't successful... or they have been extremely lucky in their jobs to date.
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