applets... are they dead? 1

[MichealECooper]

I have just begun studying Java through an online university, and I just cannot get excited about studying applets because they don't work on IE -- the most popular browser. While I love the utility of them, I cannot help but think that Java on demand over the internet is dead. I don't want to put in the hours writing an applet if 90% of the people accessing my site cannot use it. If I get an error or a blank box where an applet should be, I usually move to another site. I have just begun studying Java, so I would like to get the opinions of more experienced programmers. Are Java applets still viable... or rather, will they become viable again in the future? If so, how? How should I use applets? Is there a way to overcome Microsoft's intentional incompatibility?

 

[IPOz]

The user can download the JRE plugins from java.sun.com.So in your site you can add a link to tell the user that they should download the plugins if they have not download the appropriate JRE.

Regards! IPO_z@cmmail.com
Garbage in,Garbage out

 

[MichealECooper]

That's what I had thought I would do when I decided to begin Java, but I have recently read that the JVM's cannot coexist. Is that true? In other words, if I program for the Sun JVM and ask my viewer to install it, then that viewer cannot use the applets written for Microsoft JVM. Is this true? The average user will not be able to change the browser settings, much less edit the registry or even the Path line. Is it possible to transparently use both Microsoft and Sun JVMs?

 

[IPOz]

Microsoft will not support java in the future,So you should program based on sun JVM.Of course there are many old applets which are based on microsoft JVM.For them the author should upgrade there code to use sun JVM.

Regards! IPO_z@cmmail.com
Garbage in,Garbage out

 

[wushutwist]

A few corrections:
1) You don't program based on the JVM. You program based on the Java Language Specification. The JVM is irrelavant assuming it follows the Language Specification. Something which Microsoft did not do (which is why they got sued). Small detail but a very important distinction.
2) Java Applets are not in style much anymore, this is true. On the otherhand Java and J2EE have a steadily increasing deathgrip on the server-side. Servlets and JSP are increasing being used for mission-critical Server-side Applications which is why Gartner (if you have any faith in them) sees a very strong future for Java.
3) What is Gartner's number problem with the current state of Java? Lack of quality developers. A shortage which they don't expect to be filled till at least 2003. So do yourself a favor and learn Java, you'll be happy that you did.
4) Hell, even if Java which belly up for some unknown reason a transition to .NET and C# would be extremely easy since C# is basically a complete knock off of Java. I won't be surprised if you could write a Java class that compiled without changes in C#.

Just my opinion. I am a bit biased because I am a J2EE Developer but check around and see if you can find some conflicting info. Just please don't bring back any articles written by Roger Sessions, that guy is just a Microsoft Goon. Wushutwist

 

[MichealECooper]

Tek-tips is amazing. I have never had such quick, well-informed, and helpful information to a question before. Thank you. You really put this issue in perspective for me. I did decide to go the way of Java because I want to do server-side programming, so I'm glad to know that I am on the right track.

 

[GT500FOMOCO]

If you think Tek-Tips is amazing try Sun's Java forum at

http://forum.java.sun.com

Sun's experts can help you with anything you need there.

Java applets are not dead, just Internet Explorer. IE has gone down hill and Microsoft has signed IE's death warrent by excluding Java 2 support. Eventualy IE will fade from the pucture, to be replaced by Netscape & Opera (wich are both very much better). Java applets will become the future of the internet, and Sun needs your help to make this possible sooner. Please don't stop studying Java! IE has seen it's day, just because it comes with Windows does not mean it is the best browser, or the most popular. I hate IE with all my heart. >:-< That goes for Microsoft as well. %-( So please don't put your faith in IE or Microsoft. Keep your options open and use more than 1 or 2 browsers. You may find (as I have) that IE is not the best, or the most convinient browser out there. It is also not the most free. You have to pay for Windows, but you can get Netscape for free at

http://www.netscape.net

and Opera for free at

http://www.opera.com

and they are the full versions. Plus if you are using a 56K modem Opera is the best because it loads faster than all the others. ;-) &quot;and everything under the sun is in tune
but the sun is eclipsed by the moon.&quot; --Pink Floyd: Eclipse

&quot;I'm going to spend eternity
reinstalling Windows.&quot; --Reinstalling Windows: by some British guy

 

[GT500FOMOCO]

Also, there are e-shopping sites that use Java for the shopping cart. If you don't have a Java plug in with your browser then you can't shop. :-( &quot;and everything under the sun is in tune
but the sun is eclipsed by the moon.&quot; --Pink Floyd: Eclipse

&quot;I'm going to spend eternity
reinstalling Windows.&quot; --Reinstalling Windows: by some British guy

 

[MichealECooper]

Well, I never said that I was thinking of giving up on Java. I have only begun, but I really like the efficiency with which programs can be built up from pre-existing code, and I love the options available: server-side, applications, applets, mobile, embedded... it's wonderful. I have yet the find out how well Java works with XML, but I am looking forward to doing that. My initial question was whether or not applets would survive the discontinuation of support by MS.

I know that to all of you it is a no-brainer to download and install the plug-in, but for absolute beginners (like most of the people around me here in rural Japan), if it is not in the system when you bring it home from the store, it will probably not be installed. For computer novices, downloaded and installing the plug-in is scary, because they don't want to break their computer. They can't fix anything, so they would have to pay up to 3,000 yen to get the computer store people to reinstall their system.

Once the new Sun JVM is complete, I hope that PC makers will all agree to pre-install it on their machines, even putting it on the recovery disk. If they don't, applets will not have much of a chance against ActiveX controls and other Windows-specific technologies.

 

[GT500FOMOCO]

Java applets will survive not being supported be IE. The question is, will IE survive not supporting Java applets? I doubt it will. LOL And that's Microsoft's fault. &quot;and everything under the sun is in tune
but the sun is eclipsed by the moon.&quot; --Pink Floyd: Eclipse

&quot;I'm going to spend eternity
reinstalling Windows.&quot; --Reinstalling Windows: by some British guy

 

[GT500FOMOCO]

It's easy to get the JVM. just download a browser that comes with it! I downloaded Opera so that I wouldn't have to bother messing with IE or Netscape & Opera came with JRE version 1.3.0_01 and that saved me a headacke. ;-) Although with a 56K modem it took over 2 hours to download (that's because AOL only gives me 3KBPS). X-) &quot;and everything under the sun is in tune
but the sun is eclipsed by the moon.&quot; --Pink Floyd: Eclipse

&quot;I'm going to spend eternity
reinstalling Windows.&quot; --Reinstalling Windows: by some British guy

 

[IPOz]

GT500FOMOCO,It it seems the Opera is not free.

Regards! IPO_z@cmmail.com
Garbage in,Garbage out

 

[GT500FOMOCO]

I don't know where you found that out, but I got Opera for free at

http://www.opera.com

X-) &quot;and everything under the sun is in tune
but the sun is eclipsed by the moon.&quot; --Pink Floyd: Eclipse

&quot;I'm going to spend eternity
reinstalling Windows.&quot; --Reinstalling Windows: by some British guy

 

[IPOz]

You mean the one with boring Ads ?
I think the Ads will waste my bandwidth especially using dial way !

Regards! IPO_z@cmmail.com
Garbage in,Garbage out

 

[MichealECooper]

Well, Opera is not an option for me because it does not support Japanese. I live in Japan, and my wife, my company, and most of the people that I know are Japanese. I will have to wait until Opera supports more languages before I can use it.

Micheal

 

[GT500FOMOCO]

Opera is faster that IE or Netscape with the adds. I can load a page much faster with a 56K using AOL with Opera than when I use IE or Netscape. X-) &quot;and everything under the sun is in tune
but the sun is eclipsed by the moon.&quot; --Pink Floyd: Eclipse

&quot;I'm going to spend eternity
reinstalling Windows.&quot; --Reinstalling Windows: by some British guy

 

[XL5]

IE will not survive, because it doen't suport Java!
Are you living on the same planet?.

 

[ackka]

MichealECooper
I think Java applets have a viable future. Applets have coding capability that very few other web languages have.
They have database, security, graphic components that don't need to be directely tied into the webserver. For example, you can use CGI, ASP, to do many similar functions but the webserver needs to have special modules running to allow this. Applets can run without this overhead. The downside to this is that you are going to be dependent on the Web Browser. Micr$oft unfortunately has decided to go against the Sun standard and push its own version of java. this is unfortunate but it can't be helped (marketing people most likely made this decision ) I wrote a FAQ a while ago about getting Sun JVM Applets to work in IE. If you go to the main area of the Java(Sun) forum you will see tabs for Forum, Keyword Search, and FAQ, click on FAQ and the post is in their.

good luck, Java Applets are very neat, but do take a good deal of tweaking to work correctely.

ackka

http://home.cyberarmy.com/ackka/

 

[GT500FOMOCO]

You can disable the ads in the free Opera browser. When you do, it just has the default Opera ad. &quot;and everything under the sun is in tune
but the sun is eclipsed by the moon.&quot; --Pink Floyd: Eclipse

&quot;I'm going to spend eternity
reinstalling Windows.&quot; --Reinstalling Windows: by some British guy