any constructive ideas accepted thanks in advance 1

[ftpme]

My problem is that I have no education was a carpenter for 22 of my 40 years and had to find another career after trashing my back.I had never turned on a computer until 3 years ago and then within a week of buying that old 386 someone had sent my wife a nice program that deleted everything and the 386 sat around for a little over a year and then one day I decide to go to the library and get some books on computers and one of them was a dos book and it made it all become very clear to me that some how I could understand this stuff and I went to the local used software store and bought dos and then went back to the library to use their computer to see what kind of things I could do with dos that would enable me to learn more.

I found a nice graphical browser called arachne its small (downloaded to a floppy) fast and it wasnt easy to configure or at least that version wasnt the new versions are very easy to configure .I started to read more and realized I was becoming a geek. I am an avid 9Ball player and met this guy who was a solaris system administrator and we were talking about what he did and I told him what I had been playing with and he asked me if I had any friends that were into computers or had I talked to anyone about what I was doing I said no(as of today I have only asked 5 questions) and he made a face and I though damn I must have sounded like an idiot I dont know what I am talking about. He took a shot and looks up at me and says hey I know what you need, come in tomorrow and lets shoot a few games.

He came in and gave me a pent 133 laptop I allmost passed out he said this is what you need you will see that you have been missing out and this will enable you to do a lot more than you could ever do with that 386. He gave me a project to do he wanted me to get rid of the solaris intel port on the 133 and get win98 and linux and install them on seperate partitions. Well of course I had an idea of what he was talking about but how to go about it I had no clue. All he said was you can do it, well yes after 3-18 hour days I did it and it was the hardest 3 days of my life but I was haveing a blast. And here I am now I can do more than I know how to explain . And even the few uh administrators that I have met and other people that I myself would expect to know more than I do, well it seems to me they arent very knowlegable about much at all and they in my opinion dont want to go beyond where they are and seem quite complacent.

Well we are getting to my problem. I have allways been one to try and excell at what I do to push myself to dig deeper try harder work harder especialy when I like something. I never in my wildest dreams would have thought that I would get into computers. And then the dot com dies right at the time I am ready to join the IT world. I can setup just about any service on freebsd or linux very adept at networking I can configure a linux router to do whatever i need and have a good understanding of ipchains and can maintain a good firewall .(I have a nice setup at home) My problem is simply what can I do with what I know to get my foot in the door I want to learn more and obviously I am very capable of learning I just need a JOB that will enable me to grow.

I have a problem on top of all of this and that is that I dont have a resume and I realize now that I need a skills resume but wouldnt know how to start makeing one.
I have a hard time trying to get part of what I know on paper(I would never try and embelish a resume and wouldnt be able to lie if I did and above all dont want to seem like a know it all because I am just someone who is able to learn)let alone enough to get someones attention well enough to hire me and especialy the way the buisines is today. If you can help send me in the right direction please do.

Steve Davis alias--> unixaddict
Dallas,Tx and yes I know I cant spell

 

[mitchmag]

ftpme,

This is a dilema many people have. Another difficulty you may have to overcome is your age. Many people may have a problem giving a 40 year old an entry level position.

This is what I have seen work for a few people. Go to some staffing (temp) agencies and try to get work through them. Look for assignments in a systems or support group, especially one that is over-loaded with work, which is frequently the case when they are looking for a temp to help out. Likely they will want you to do simple, non-technical activities, but if you are sharp, you will be able to help with other things and they will appreciate your skills and initiative. We had a couple of situations like this that have worked out well for both parties. Try to find a staffing agency that seems willing to work with you to find a suitable position. Likely you will end up in some assignments that offer you nothing but a paycheck. You'll have to decide what to do in those situations.
By going this route you can get some actual working experience to put on your resume. It may take a while and the pay will start out bad, but your skills should shine through and eventually you can get a staff position, maybe even from one of your temporary assignments.

Hope things work out,
MitchMag

 

[mojorourke]

I came into computers in a similar way. After a knee injury I was unable to do electrical work any longer. I decided to go back to school and get a degree - which I got at age 41. Going to school is a good approach. You meet other people in the field and learn things you wouldn't know otherwise.
I've never gotten a job by just sending out resumes, but you have to have one. No one likes writing them. I've worked for 4 different companies in the last 7.5 years and I got all 4 of these jobs by being referred by someone that either worked for the companies in question or personally knew the people with the hiring power. Networking seems to be the best way to go and taking some classes, particularly at a school that caters to older working people, is a good way to make the connections.
Good luck and don't give up. You'll find a home.

 

[ftpme]

Thanks to both of you, I believe that all of the above suggestions are going to help me out.I am going to contact the temp agencies and join the unix users group here and maybe take a few classes at the local community college. I was going to take some unix classes before but most of them seemed like it would have been a waste of money since I am very comfortable with unix.When I go to my first uug meeting I will be able to meet other unix people.That will help the most, I hope.
Thanks again

 

[NinaToo]

ftpme:

I was in my late 40's before I got into computers. I also had to change careers and go back to school. And I was 50 before I was ready to look for work.

I learned a variety of computer languages and networking skills. And thus I could apply for a variety of entry-level positions. It took time, because most companies want someone experienced -- but how do you get the experience if no one wants to hire you? Eventually you'll find someone who wants an entry-level person.

The computer language I finally got hired for was mainframe COBOL. Which surprised me because I took it as an afterthought, thinking that it was dying out.

But that couldn't be further from the truth. Companies need their mainframes to store data. And they need COBOL to access their mainframes. And COBOL is also growing, with new PC versions of COBOL, Visual COBOL, Object-Oriented COBOL, etc. COBOL is not going anywhere anytime soon. It will be around for quite a while.

And recently, when I lost my first COBOL job, I had to go jobhunting again. And found that people were so desperate for COBOL programmers that they didn't care how old I was (in my 50's), all they cared about was could I code in COBOL? Now I've got a new (as of 6 months ago) job with a government agency, with higher pay than my old job and great benefits.

I wouldn't be too worried about the great dot.com meltdown. There are still plenty of computer jobs available. You just have to keep plugging. And go to a professional resume writer to get your resume together.

And always, when you submit your resume, give the company a follow-up call a few days later. This let's them know that you are interested and separates you from whatever resumes are piled on their desks.

Keep taking college courses. Diversify your knowledge. Maybe you should consider some COBOL and mainframe courses.

Nina Too

 

[pivan]

ftpme...

Well...here is my .02 worth.

First...sit down with a six pack, diet pepsi, or Bud and work on your resume. Check out the resume sites for samples. Dont worry so much ... just do. I don't think anyone really enjoys working on resume but it is absolutely essential. Your resume is dynamic, constantly tweaked, it will never be perfect, because your experience base is constantly changing and being improved. Get the first draft down, polished and submitted to prospective employers. Make it a part time job for the rest of your career to fine tune your resume.
It is helpful to start by listing all of your accomplishments...I mean everything. It is sauce for the goose if you can associate a metric with them. "Reduced software development time to market by 50% through implementaion of RAD ."

Second, get a degree or certification. You can get a job with experience, but a career as a professional requires a degree or certification. (will probably have a lot of slackers disagree with me on this..but oh well). For the most part this is where the real money is made and the real fun lies (at least for me at any rate) and unless you of the type Bill Gates or Andy Groves, a certification of some sort opens doors.

Strategy: Use your existing experience to create a resume to get a job that will pay for your education for a degree or certification. Ride it from there.

Age: Haahhh...I'm 51 and I have recruiters and companies people calling me several times a week to see if I am available. So dont use age as a crutch. 40 is young. Well to me at any rate

Enjoy it all...

g'Luck and sorry if I offended anyone,

pivan In not now, when?
If not here, where?
If not us, who?

Just do it!!

 

[ftpme]

Thanks again for all the advice and believe me it will be put to good use.I am very interested in learning as much as possible so I dont plan to focus all of my energy on just one or two areas.As of right now my interest are far greater than I can even express, one word comes to mind tho addicted<---thats me!

I love this stuff and just cant make the days long enough.Its the most amazing thing to enjoy something this much I always had great pride in my woodwork(highend millwork) and the satisfaction I got out of it was great but wow computers are a heck of a lot more satisfiying and hey you know what;I dont get saw dust all over me!!

hey pivan I have a new part time job now thanks

 

[ftpme]

oh I forgot I do have some certs but they are from brainbench. Are they good enough to add to my resume?

 

[sleew]

When they tell you you are not young, dont mind!
When they ask you why you were carpenter, say &quot;I like it!&quot;
When they ask you what do you know, show them!

When you know what you dont know, then you do what you promissed.
Just one adviceIRECTION.People are making mistake, they think that computers are some kind of science.It is not!
It is different world that consists of many sciences, you just need to pick up one you are interesting for.You have two basic options:
1.To know a bit about everything, then you will be able to work as chief or someone who is responsable for cadre developement or as integrator.It is interesting way, very interesting and gives you right picture of computer filosofy.That road develops yourself.
2.To know only one field &quot;till bone&quot;.Than you will be expert who earns a lot but is stupid for everything besides your job.It is less interesting way.
DIRECTION or you are lost soul!
Use logic, use resources! Sleew
Compaq & Microsoft TS
sleew@infosky.net

 

[NinaToo]

Ftpme: The fact that you are addicted to computers should come through in your interviews, and it definitely makes a postitive impression on most companies. They want and need computer addicts.

That's because they frequently need really dedicated folks to work overtime, and only those folks who love computers will be willing to work some of the extra hours when necessary. Also those folks who love computing will be willing to expend the extra effort to get that project finished before the deadline.

So don't be afraid to express your love of computers when you go on interviews. Also, you might want to bring samples of some of the projects you have already worked on, either from class or on your own.

Nina Too

 

[Smack]

Great thread responses, I really enjoyed reading them all.
Iused to manage a restaraunt for a large corp. After six years I walked out. (Literally) Went to work for a plastic company as a line operator as I was burnt out on managing people and dealing with the general public - whine-whine-whine!
I left production, went to work in the lab where I had to ask my co-workers to key in my hand written reports because I did not even know what windows was!Went back to production as a lead operator (more money) and then it happened!
In late 98, I was chosen to work in a newly created department, manufacturing systems, and my whole world changed. I had to learn how to use the entire MS suite for nt. Got involved with our quest for ISO registration and ended becoming the Management Rep for ISO. While working on different systems, I saw people beating their head against the wall because different people were keeping seperate excell worksheets and then trying to balance and report on them, they would spend hours every month to prepare one report! During the slow part of December 99 I started playing around with Access. I took threeclasses at the local CC, but by the time I took each class, i had already figured out the next classes curriculum and mainly walked away with good reference material.

As of two weeks ago I had eight multi-user NT access systems in place. Two weeks ago I had to upgrade to Access 2000, and integrated all eight into one. (Nightmare, don't really care for A2K)In my spare time I am a woodcarver, and I find that access is a lot like that - the attention to detail, the agonizing hours to get it right, only to screw it up and then the hours needed to fix the mistake!I would like to learn SQL and Visual Basic, work will pay for it, but I just don't have time right now.

I guess all of this is to say that at 39, I am continuing to learn and improve. As we all know, there are those who care about what they do and how they do it, and there are those who don't. This is at all levels, including management. If you work hard, learn and try to improve the business pro-actively you will become invaluable. We just had layoffs because of the economy. I was concerned and our Director stated that there are people and positions we can live without, and those we can't. Your position is one we can't live without.

About the .coms - well what the hell did people think they were doing? They just threw money at everything without even trying to find out if it was a viable product or market. Any other type of investment, people want to know if your making money. There is one thing we will NEVER get away from (in our lifetime) is computers. They market may be soft now, but almost every facet of our life is affected by them. The need for hardware and software skills will never go away.
Enough, I'll shut up
-Smack
Winners are persistant losers.

 

[ftpme]

Yes I agree Smack the responces were great. Hey sleew that is so close to what that solaris admin told me its almost scary. And so true thanks so much. And NinaToo If only you knew how good it made me feel for you to say that about my addiction because I have had a few people say oh just keep your mouth shut they dont want rocket scientist just bodys to do the job at hand. Well thats not me,I want people to know how much I enjoy computers.

I keep thinking if I get lucky and find the right job it will all just fall into place and all parties involved will benefit Smack it sounds like you are having fun! I can do some carving too mostly just match carving on damaged old stuff is what I have done. Thanks again to everyone and just so you all know. This is one unixaddict thats never going to quit learning.