Another kind of Low-Level Format? 2

[haslo]

I have bought a notebook, with a catch. I had a notebook before, and they re-used my old hard drive in the new device, exchanging pretty much everything else.

When I first got, I tried to install my Windows XP Update, and it started to BSOD all the time. The STOP codes were usually one of the following - all of which are pointing to RAM failures:

0x0000004e
0x0000007e
0x0000008e
0x00000050

Now in my telephones and mails with the company (meanwhile, the notebook was sent back and forth another time, with no success), they keep telling me it can't be the RAM - because all of that is checked at boot time and the Notebook wouldn't boot at all if it was broken.

I then tried to check the RAM using memtest, but after speaking with the company's tech support, they told me that memory checkers were not compatible with the ACPI of the notebook and would thus return errors in every block of the second RAM chip (because that wouldn't yet have been powered), which it did.

They also told me it was the hard drive, because the format of it was (and they didn't give specifics here) not compatible with the new Notebook.
And they told me that I would have to low-level-format it using a Windows XP that was neither an update nor an OEM version - that "normal" Windows XP would automagically perform the low-level-format with its standard high-level-format.
On the other hand, when I said that as far as I know, the low-level-format is only necessary once, they told me it was not a full kind of low-level-format, but some other kind.

Meanwhile, I (high-level-)formatted the hard drive with 4 or 5 different breeds of Windows XP, including and one breed of Windows 2000, all with no success and the same BSOD popping up all the time.

Do you know of such an other kind of low-level-format? What do you think about these errors?

haslo@haslo.ch - www.haslo.ch​

 

[technome]

I think the company is trying to dazzle you with BS.
You have the makings of a nightmare here, and the company knows it.

A special kind of low level format? good one... drives are low level formatted at the factory, you would need a factory supplied utility to do this, if you could even get it from the drive manufacturer. Possibility the drive is not compatible with you notebook, check the drive manufacturers site to see if their is a firmware download for it. Is the notebook bios up to date?

Could very well be the ram. The laptop self test and even memory checkers can fail to find faulty ram. You could reverse the ram chips and test again. Software mem checkers are not very reliable, hardware memory checkers are the true test for ram.

A faulty or over heating cpu will also cause errors such as this. Just as with ram, a failed area in the cpu, will cause problems when accessed.

If you delete all the partitions on the drive and recreate a usable partition for the Os, reinstall the Os, the drive will be checked during the install. I recommending the portion(s) be deletion just in case a nasty virus is about, unlikely though. On a couple of laptops I have seen viruses infect a partition from another partition.

If you have the ability to return this unit I would. If it was purchased on a credit card you may have protection, even if the supplier refuses to take it back. If not,
I would replace the ram, from a supplier which will take a return if the new ram does not correct the problem.

 

[bcastner]

If the disk controller is fundamentally different, there could well be some truth behind the BS.

Zero fill the drive, and then do a normal XP install.
You can obtain from the drive manufacturer their diagnostic/setup routine that should allow a zero fill.

 

[Kesser]

Maxtor do a generic low-level formatter called 'max llf' - we use it all the time on all kinds of different drives - I agree that the company sound as they are just fobbing you off with BS and sound like they don't essentially wish to support thier product. Is it a large company?

Kes

 

[edfair]

Some earlier machines had the capability to do a low level format on IDE drives from the BIOS but I haven't see one since the 486s with that available.

The zero fill does the equivalent of a low level except for the rewriting of the address information for the sectors.

I have seen problems where certain controllers didn't want to talk to drives low leveled and used by other controllers. Zero fill may resolve it in your case.

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[haslo]

Thanks a lot for your answers...

technome:

That's pretty much what I thought (the BS and nightmare part), but I called them one or two times and since they're a really small firm spoke with the people in charge, and they actually sound like they sort of know what they're doing.

Reversing the RAM chips or taking one of the two temporarily out of the box is also not an option right now, I void my warranty if I open the device.

Also, I won't do a BIOS update until the device runs, and I guess I won't even do it after that - a BIOS update would void my warranty, and I don't intend to do that before it even ran in the first place. Plus a failed BIOS update was the reason why I had to return my previous unit with a broken mainboard.

I already thought about the overheating part, but the failures also happen after only some few seconds of the computer running, so it would have to be a very serious problem, and I'd like to rule out simpler failures first - but yes, it could be the CPU.

There is no OS installed, and I recreate and switch partitions all the time - the STOPs occur during the install itself, with about 4 or 5 different WinXP disks (all my friends must have lent me theirs by now). So I don't think it's any kind of virus

A firmware update for the drive would be a possible resolution, as is a corrupt / faulty CPU. I have to point out these possibilities to the company, I'm still in contact with them - as I said, the Notebook never ran in the first place. Which sucks...

bcastner:

Yes, that could be. Unfortunately, I have no floppy drive in the device though, and no USB drive available - probably I will buy one of those and attempt a zero fill. Or I just send the device back and let them zero fill. So you'd say what they actually talked about was not a low-level-format but a zero fill and they just didn't tell me so? That would even sound reasonable...

Kesser:

I don't plan to actually Low-Level-Format my drive - as there is a pretty big possibility that it won't run at all afterwards and I actually break it beyond repair.
And no, the company is not big, it's a really small swiss one called Parrotsgroup.

edfair:

Thanks! You wrote this while I was formulating all of the above, and that really sounds reasonable.

haslo@haslo.ch - www.haslo.ch​

 

[haslo]

I have a follow-up question, too:

Can you imagine that such a non-zero-filled hard drive could cause these STOP codes in a WinXP setup, even before I even can select the hard drive and partition (or choose to format it)?

I could imagine the WinXP setup accessing the hard drive before that, of course - it's just that I have no idea and would like to know.

haslo@haslo.ch - www.haslo.ch​

 

[edfair]

Suspicion would be that the problem is other than the hard drive. The memory test that BIOS performs is minimal, earlier versions were nothing more than a sizing operation, write 55h to a memory location and check to see if there is a 55h there, if not size memory to the last good location 16kb ago.
I can give one example: Wanted to ICS my DSL line so upgraded MB and memory to go from 95 to SE. Spent 3 weeks off and on trying to get OS to take,98,SE,ME,XP, even NT4 and 2K for testing, and back down again, all failing at different places, different times, different symptoms, even on the same OS, but never a glitch with DOS or 95 and all the memory tests passed. Ir was frustrating enough that I went router and stayed with 95 temporarily on another box until I could get the issue resolved.


Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[bcastner]

I strongly suspect hardware. I would not rule out a hard disk formatted with different sector ID signatures from a different controller. You are not throwing consistent RAM errors, so I would rule that out for the time being. A BIOS upgrade is suggested, if available.

0x0000004e - likely physical RAM or hardware incompatability
0x0000007e - likely an attached hardware device, or BIOS
0x0000008e - almost certainly an incompatible hardware device or BIOS issue
0x00000050 - an attached hardware device incompatability

 

[haslo]

I wrote another mail to the company and will see what they say (I also pointed out this thread here). Thanks for ruling out the RAM possibility, they will be glad to hear you support their stance here.

I looked what kind of HD I have, the BIOS told me it's a IC25N040ATMR04, which would be a Hitachi Travelstar 80GN - do you have experience with zero filling Hitachi drives with their tools?

BTW, I also saw that it's called LLF there, so that could be the reason for the misnomer from the company tech guy...

A BIOS upgrade seems like the logical next step to take, but as I said, I have had very negative experiences with those...

haslo@haslo.ch - www.haslo.ch​