Aggregious differences between English spelling and common sense

[sleipnir214]

One thing that makes English spelling so difficult for everyone, both English as a first language and English as an additional language, is the fact that standard English spelling is not just non-phonetic but often very non-phonetic.

I'm not talking about words like "phonetic" (which, ironically, should be spelled "fonetik"), which is mildly irritating. I'm talking about words with such a high percentage of superfluous letters that they offend common sense: "through" and "eight" come immediately to mind.

Does anyone have a further example?

Anyone have more examples?

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[synack76]

`gh` as in trou`gh`, `o` as in `women` and `ti` as in ra`ti`on...

 

[Stella740pl]

ESquared, sleipnir214, Rosie,

I am not a native English speaker, and if junior high/high school/college English can be considered a childhood experience, then, I guess, I have some. That "capital" is a word, and so is "capitalization", I learned in junior high. The fact that also there is "capitol", I found out some time later. Perhaps, in high school. As for "capitolization", I had a feeling it's not a recognized word, but was not completely sure, so I made some quick research before correcting the spelling (but even before I made a research, I knew if it was a word, it must be a noun...).

Well, a few minutes passed before it dawned on me that it was a joke. (And it was before the "You missed my whole point" post appeared between two mine.)

Don't like to brag, but I did not so bad.

OK, maybe now someone would also explain me about Chardonization/Merlotinization (not about species of grapes and sorts of wines, but was it a linguistic joke, or something else) ?

Stella

 

[sleipnir214]

It is, I suppose, a pun.

And it plays on the use of "-ization" as a suffix to denote a transformation process, the species of grapes used to make wine and the fact that wine varieties are called by the type of grape used to make the wine.




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[SF0751]

This discussion, though, does bring to mind a comedy riff I heard once. The comedian was talking about Jesus of Nazareth's miracle of turning water into wine. The comedian said that more than anything, he was interested in the whole chardinization process.

chardinization [sic] = the act of turning water into white wine (Chardonnay).
merlotinization = the act of turning water into red wine (Merlot).

The comedian was not interested in the significance of the miracle, he was interested in the process of turning water into wine.

I would be interested in the process of beerinization.

Susan
[green]Gramen artificiosum odi. [/green]

 

[ESquared]

I couldn't understand chardinization until someone pointed out Chardonnay. I might have gotten it if it had been spelled Chardonnization.

Google turns up nothing for either, although it does suggest chronization in place of the latter. Apparently from syn- chronization, chortle.

 

[Stella740pl]

sleipnir214,
Sorry, I missed that phrase the first time around. It explains it all!
Of course, Chardonization would be better. Chardinization reminds me rather of sardines than of Chardonnay... Although I don't think that fishes in yet another miracle were sardines.

Susan,
Thanks for bringing it up! Very good explanation.

 

[ESquared]

I was thinking along the lines of swiss chard or char as in blackened by flame.

 

[Stella740pl]

ESquared,

I cannot say I was thinking along the lines of sardines. The first mention of the word I noticed was Rosie's, along with Merlotinization, so I understood that it had something to do with wines right away (Rosie, wouldn't Merlotization sound better? Or Cabernetization?).
I just didn't understand what it was all about. The sardines just came as an association when I noticed sleipnir214's original spelling in Susan's post.

And I don't know what Swiss chard is.

 

[sleipnir214]

stella740pl:
You mentioned that English is not your first language. What is your first language?



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[Stella740pl]

Russian.

 

[Dimandja]

Privet, stella740pl.

 

[Stella740pl]

Dimandja,
Privet. "Hi" is OK, too. I am already used to it.

sleipnir214,
By the way, I already mentioned my first language in another thread on this forum, thread1256-805871 , answering Rosie's question. Remember discussing Moskow/Moskva?

 

[SF0751]

Swiss Chard is a vegetable; similar to rhubarb. See

http://www.veseys.com/store.cfm?cat=98

for more information.
Of course, in addition, to being the name of a vegetable plant, rhubarb can also describe an argument. During early radio dramas, when the noise of an angry crowd was needed, actors in the studio would repeatedly utter the word rhubarb, which provided the appropriate effect. The hubbub and din of a radio crowd was somehow transferred over to the noise of a fight or argument. This use is documented as early as 1934. (See

http://www.wordorigins.org/wordorr.htm

for even MORE information).


Susan
[green]Gramen artificiosum odi. [/green]

 

[Stella740pl]

Thanks, Susan!

 

[sleipnir214]

stella740pl:
Did that conversation take place more than a week ago? If so, I won't remember.

The reason I'm asking is that someone here might know what the leafy green vegetable "chard" is called in that language.



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[ESquared]

Hmmm... I suppose one must use capitalization (grin) in order to spell it correctly, i.e., Swiss chard. Similar to Brussels sprout(s). Note it is not Brussel, singular.

 

[Stella740pl]

The reason I'm asking is that someone here might know what the leafy green vegetable "chard" is called in that language

Thanks. Never mind. Now I know what it is, and I know how to translate "rhubarb" into Russian. I don't think that Swiss chard is very common in Russian-speaking countries, so probably there is no native name. I might be wrong, though.

 

[rosieb]

Stella
Char is also a type of fish, so chardinization could refer to turning something into fish.

When words are created in this way, additional letters/syllables are often added to make the word sound "better" or more "real", there are no real rules - and they aren't real words, until they've been used often enough. It really is just a play on words.

sleipnir214
<wandering even further aside>The grape type was probably Sueida / Sweida (sp. unknown, I suspect there's a transliteration issue), it's certainly still grown in Syria & Lebanon, but probably known by a different name elsewhere in the region. An acquired taste - distinctly muddy. </wandering even further aside>

Rosie
"Never express yourself more clearly than you think" (Niels Bohr)

 

[ESquared]

Back to the original topic of this thread, I like the two one-syllable, eight-letter words I know of:

straight
strength

I thought of these when I was 10 years old and haven't found another since then, 22 years later.

I suppose straight could be spelled much more simply, but I don't see how to reduce strength.

 

[ESquared]

By the way, I just noticed... if aggregious was to be the first example of "differences between English spelling and common sense," I would like to point out that it is not pronounced uh-GREE-jus, it is pronounced ih-GREE-jus.

E²

P.S. Just in case... it IS spelled egregious.