agency probs

[gurner]

Was just wondering (probably been discussed somewhere before) about people's opinions/feedback/experiances on sourcing non-agency positions?

I am having a really bad time looking for alternative positions not advertised 10 times over by different agencies. all pimping the same positions claiming to represent the employer.

when i know damn well the employer is going to turn them away when they get contacted by an agency with my CV.

It got so bad with the amount of times my CV had been viewed on these sites that promise 'an employer will see your CV' but all i used to get were tons of phone calls from agencies trying to keep me on the phone for half an hour and then 'never' getting back to me again, that i changed my number and took it out of all my online CV's

I have 7 odd differenet job sites with my ideal search criteria saved as favourites which i view every couple of days over the last 4 odd months, and out of the 1000's every day, not one barr the very occasional on TotalJobs or Monster are direct employer ones. and 100% of every single agency one has totally wasted my time! i have never had a squeak of promise out of any of them ever!! and i could name many that a lot of people here would have heard of

and now i only call the agencies that bother to email me with their contact details.

There is another problem however, even these run through exactly the same questions answered by my CV and then never call me back. i have honestly had 100's of calls in the 'near' year till i changed my number, and spent collectivly hours on the phone.

But before any one goes and says it maybe my CV or attitude or something that is turning them off, i have considered that one, i have had my CV verified by mulitple known and 3rd parties and it is cool, and in my chats the agency gets a very polite and professional call.

so i have another option i am following, buy all the papers i can source, and going through them all, but this is expensive because the the 1-2 'IT' based positions out off 30 odd pages or whatever, is not the 'type' i would consider anymore (think soul destroying phone calls e.t.c.) or live off of (if you catch my meaning)

I am an experianced Field Engineer with 5+ years going on, and i fear out of the 2 positions i found in the last 8-9 months (which were word of mouth, not what you know, who you know types) and went to interview, that were direct employer, i had priced myself out of them (too much on my side on one, they feared i'd get bored and move on soon, the other couldn't match my salary) but barring these problems i know given the chamce i'd have a high chance of getting a position, but am not finding these opportunities.

and the final quandry is, occasionally the agency you speak to tell you the name of the company, they go to great length's to hide from all the online jobsites, which they claim to be forwarding your details on to. what do you do if they never get back to you again?

do you go to the company they mentioned and try direct, despite the fact that as per usual the company is less than 10 miles away and are recruiting, but have not advertised in any local papers, you don't know if your details were viewed or not?

Cheers

Gurner

 

[chiph]

An agency will never tell you who the customer is until they're sure you're a potential candidate. They don't want a competitor stealing their business, and they definitely don't want you applying for the position directly (which would cut them out of their fees).

If the customer has an exclusive arrangement with one or more agencies, they won't accept an application from you. The most you'll get out of them is which agencies they use (which will solve the unauthorized agency problem you mentioned).

Don't get all caught up in the fact that the recruiter/agency is going to make money from placing you. That's the business they're in, and even recruiters deserve to make a profit.

So far as recruiters, you should find one that is honest and that you can work with. They're as rare as hen's teeth, but once you find one, you should make an effort to develop a long-term relationship with him. A good recruiter wants repeat business from you.

Chip H.


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If you want to get the best response to a question, please read FAQ222-2244 first

 

[gurner]

totally agree, just need to find one.

for the 3rd time in a month an agency told me a company they said they'd forward my CV to. on monday i had a chat with this guy about a position at an carrier less than 10 miles to where i live, which if i don't hear from him again i'd like to try.

it is usual case i know where they are and do e.t.c. (in hind sight) but never knew about the position till an agent told me, coz i don't know someone in the know/inside regading this particular company

Gurner

 

[Stella740pl]

Well, I heard peole saying they have had problems with agencies, but I, personally, found several good jobs through them, both consulting and permanent.

Of course, some of them do waste your time, and some place bogus adverts to catch good people, then call only to touch base and to put you in their database. If a suitable position does come up, they search their database and call you - sometimes months later.

But some do have the jobs they advertise and work efficiently - that's my personal experience.

But if you are not happy with the outcome, why do you stubbornly continue to look for openings on the same job sites and in papers (I haven't seen a good and real IT position in newspapers in years) again and again?

Why don't you try to look directly in the companies? Identify the companies you would like to work for (not necessarily from the job ads placed by agencies), go to their website, see if they posted some openings there. Even if they don't, call the company; find out the names of relevant people there, and then try to call them, or to send your CV directly? Be prepared to discuss what you can do for them, not just send them to read your CV that has all the answers.

If they do have an exclusive agreement with someone, they will probably tell you, so you can go there.

 

[LadySlinger]

Keep in mind too that most likely agency/recuiters need to make so many "cold calls" in a day/week. They're more or less just like sales people. The number of resumes they can put in their database also increases the chance for the agency to place someone in a position with a company. Many times there are several agencies competing for the same position.

I haven't had many great experiences with recruiters or agencies. Often times my resume got submitted for a position that I have little to no qualifications for. I interviewed anyway just for the experience, but that's just about it.

 

[gurner]

tried the direct to companies not advertising approach before, no luck so with this either, especially the last one.

That one nearly made my blood boil, i consider it such a short sighted approach, i'll hold my hands up, i don't have an MSCE, they're alright i suppose, but the last 5 years i've had other things to do (a life, family, friends, e.t.c.), i don't consider them vital (just a bonus) and i know there are many people here that share this opinion.

(i am reading the CCNA however for hopefully soon)

I've supported/installed some pretty good systems beyond the scope of many an MCSE/CCNA, i know my colleague reading this agrees, he's in the same position (but has his CCNA and just got offered a new win2k3 based job and took it, the jammy sod).

but the guy who read my CV and saw the line 'am studing for an MCSE and CCNA' and replied back with 'get back to me when you have an MCSE' can forget about that

See the typical situation (fictional position)

Experiance e.t.c. required

*Exchange 55/2k/2k3 (check)
*AD (check)
*Cisco IOS router, PIX and Catalyst (Check)
*HP (check)
*Citrix (check, i'm a CCEA)
blah blah blah (check, check, check and so on)
*MCSE essential (why?)

I've studied my arse off for years, learning as much as possible, keeping up with all the developments e.t.c. and know what i'm on about, just because i've not sat a Microsoft exam to MCSE (have others though), so what (forget the fact that i'm actually not very good at exams, not the content, but just EXAMS, come on you must know what i'm on about)

Can't be a prestige thing anymore because all but the buzz word morons know how devalued they are. I'm not dissing any MCSE's i know lots of top ones, but there are so many duds, brain dumping books e.t.c.

we can spot them from a mile away, with how long i've been in this. Swear the last guy we got come in here touting his CCNA walked out after a week because he was employed by a buzz word manager and then taken to an ISP data centre on his 3rd day by one of us and tasked with patching in a new IIS server and DMZ'ing it.

I'm sorry about the curve ball here, but i'm trying to find companies not recruiting through regular channels, while wading through the overwelming amount of cold caller agencies earning their cut through the number of calls they make in a day, and the short sighted companies that i do get hold of that won't consider a guy with 5 years customer facing experiance over a 5 minute MCSE

Frustrating

I'd probably take those 7 exams giving the Microsoft answer (rather than the right one) a lot quicker if there was a properly assigned professional body over the IT industry such as the Chartered Institute of Environmental Health (which i know people in) or the law based ones e.t.c. that would weed out so much guff, and offer some sort of tangible target/base rather than some short sighted pre-requisite or paper qualified blagger getting what your looking for (eh? Mike, bet ur be glad to get away from that schreechy one, not a clue! tried to tell me what level they thought my Exchange eperiance was at in the boardroom, to justify the pathetic budget on MCP courses/exams and why i'd be doing the Exchange one! come on then luv tell me where the Checkpoint file is? and i'll teach you how the 15+ Exchange org at such and such works)

(yes the newspapers are rrrrrubbish, i've only been getting one of those 30 odd page 'Jobs' ones that tout positions for the South East of the UK, and it might have one in it every week, queue the websites, thousands to wade through, bring on the agencies. And lastly, direct to companies, gotta find them yet, theres a lot of registered IT businesses within the 80 mile Radius (40 miles either way of my home) of north hampshire UK i'm willing to be based (will field engineer EMEA if required tho)

ah well (normal service will resume, when i find another job)

Gurner

 

[jrbarnett]

Gurner - as you're UK based, have you tried sites like

http://www.jobsgopublic.com

and

http://www.jobs.ac.uk,

which are in fairly specialist areas - public sector and academia respectively, so don't get dealt with via recruitment agencies?

John

 

[gurner]

cheers, that first one looks alright.

anyone know of any others, for everyone to have a go at?



Gurner

 

[pokerace]

I too got sick and tired of agencies for the following reasons.

I once worked as a consultant at a major corporation in Pennsylvania, which outsourced their IT work to a major IT company, which outsourced their recruiting to an agency in Canada, which outsourced their recruiting to an agency in North Carolina, which found my resume on Monster and hired me without a two minute phone call. The situation was a total debacle, with a project manager just out of college, and he was actually one of the competent people involved in the process. The communication structure was really screwed up, which led to arguments and flawed decision making, which led to bad moral by the consultants and lack of respect from the employees of the corporation. Most people there did about 1 hour of actual work each day, waiting to get laid off and collect unemployment.

I should have known better then to do my job well and finish on time, as no one else seemed to care and slacked off, but then again they were kept longer then me so I guess they had the last laugh.

Not long after that I worked at a place for two days for an IT recruiter doing filing. Yep, filing. After two days they told me that there was not enough money in the company's budget for the position, but still let me work for two days. Argh.

The same company then found me another job, were I was stuck in the world's brightest room with three others. One person was from the same agency and the two others were from a different agency. Funny thing is… they all made more money then me, doing the EXACT same job. Only one of them was there longer than I was and the two people working for a different received PTO. Also, my qualifications were probably more than all three of them combined.

I know that plenty of people have good experiences with their agencies, but I was turned off big time after a few job shortly after college.

Here is what I did. I bookmarked the employment section of as many local companies that I could find, and would periodically check their available positions. I practiced my interviewing skills and eventually I found a position with a company I am glad to work for.