Advice on new PC spec (self-build)

[empois]

Just wondered if someone could run the rule over my draft new system set-up.

I'm trying to build something to run games like Doom 3, Half-life 2 etc. as well as a lot of office/web design multi-tasking.

Guide budget is £1000 (Most parts sourced from dabs.com) exc. monitor, soundcard and speakers which I already have.

Here's what I've planned so far...


Lian-Li V1000 Case
X-Connect Ultra 500W Modular Power Supply or Antec Modular 480W Power Suppy

Intel P4E 3.2 1MB S478 800FSB (Prescott)

AOpen AX4SPE-MAXII S478 Intel 865PE ATX A L
Corsair TWINX1024-3200XLPT XMS3200 2 x 512MB 2-2-2-5

GeForce 6800GT 256MB DVI VO AGP

WD Caviar RAID Edition 120Gb SATA 150 8MB 7200rpm
NEC DVD+-R/RW 16x Dual Layer IDE

Microsoft Wireless Optical Desktop Elite

Creative Sound Blaster Extigy
Creative Inspire 5.1 Digital 5700


Notes: I'm aware the X-Connect won't fit in the Lian-Li Case without modification but the Antec is a lot more expensive and performance seems to be the same + X-Connect looks better! Any opinions?

I'm not 100% that the RAM 2-2-2-5 is compatible with the motherboard - can anyone shed some light on this? There seem to be a lot of DDR RAM 3200.. 4000...?? options available now and I'm a bit out of touch.

Finally, are there any better MB and RAM configs that would run better with the P4, or allow me to use PCI Express graphics - is there any real benefit to this?

Any suggestions or comments welcome and gratefully received!!

 

[sysadminguru]

Your motherboard white pages will tell you what the Bus speed and memory bank type (SIMMS,DDR,ETC) is and that will determine what kind of memory you will need to buy.

I am not one to over clock a board or processor due to overheating and premature part failure. So stick with the manufactures suggested settings.

Modding your box is half the fun ....cut away.

Doom 3 is a great game but is very intensive on a graphics card so a good on is a must. On the game box it gives a list of several boards that are supported and min system req
if you meet or exceed this then your systems is in good shape.
ATI Radeon 8500-9800
all nVidia Geforce 3/ti series
4MX series
4/ti series
FX series
6800 series

 

[paparazi]

Guess I'd have gone for a socket 939 motherboard and the Athlon64 3200+ generally consudered better at the afore mentioned tasks but the P43.2E is a fine CPU.
Use motherboard brass standoff posts on the V1000 PSU mounting plate, this pulls the mount away from the case and allows for the extra room needed.
Try: lowest on the web (part of Evesham Micro's) for your parts, highly recommended, reliable and will beat a quote plus FREE POST! UK seller!

http://www.lowestonweb.com/

Look at:

http://www.lowestonweb.com/Products/DisplayInfoMain.asp?e=8E257A40-1EC6-4721-8A62-DB91BC21728E

OK if you have to? look at:

http://www.lowestonweb.com/Products/DisplayInfoMain.asp?e=C68E86C3-F172-4FF8-8377-D67E6771A418

FREE POST!

Martin



We like members to GIVE and not just TAKE.
Participate and help others.

 

[empois]

Great idea on the PSU mounting plate! Thanks Martin

dabs.com beat lowest on the web for just about everything i want and i cant be bothered gettin them to price match everything.

Whats the advantage of socket 939 over socket 478?

Toms hardware guide seem to suggest theres hardly any difference between P4 3.2Ghz and Athlon 64 3200+ - I accept athlon is a bit better for games but not significant - so i need a little more persuading

I chose AOpen over MSI board as I've had AOpen in the past and was impressed - THG also recommends it. But i guess the socket 939 boards may have better features?

Thanks for the help - ill keep researching, any more tips/comments etc welcome

 

[paparazi]

You're right, there is hardly any diferance.
The Athlon64 939 setup is reported to be faster, if only by a few percent in most benchmarks (especially gaming) but nothing you would notice in every day use.
AOpen are a relative newcomer to motherboard manufacturing when compared to the Top 4/5 ie: Asus, Gigabyte, MSI, Abit
I guess they are classed as being amongst the lower priced lesser known brands like Asrock, ECS, Soltek, Soyo, DFI
Having said this I have heard good things.

Better features, I guess 939 has those, Cool n Quiet being one of them.
I'm guessing lowest on web havn't got the exact same components because they usually are the cheapest, are your prices including shipping? makes a big differance with free post.
Obviously lowest have a much more limited stock being as though what they list is what they actually use in their own builds.



We like members to GIVE and not just TAKE.
Participate and help others.

 

[BadBigBen]

Well, my opinion would be to go for one of the newer Chipsets from INTEL (like 915 or 925) when you go for PCI Express...

as for the Pricing (at least here in Germany) the AMD is cheaper than a P4 at same performance level...

the RAM you chose is good and should function with at least 97% of the mobos out there... but check with mobo manufacter first, as they recommend what type and make that is safe...

the nVidia 6800 is a damn good and fast card...

as for running games... my old Cellie (2,8ghz) and a GeForce 5600 runs Doom3, albeit it's a bit slow at certain passages...




Ben

If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer...

 

[empois]

Thanks Big Ben, I'm tempted for one of the new chipsets but reviews I've read still doesn't indicate much advantage with them performance wise and I'd rather go with tried and tested I think.

I've not found much difference in price in the UK between an Intel or AMD solution. But I have been able to confirm via the Corsair website that the memory is compatible with the AOpen board and will actually run faster on a P4 system. (Lower CAS settings)

the 6800GT is the inno3D one and ive heard it can be overclocked to Ultra speeds a little project for me once ive saved up for a watercooling system!

in the meantime ive ordered some artic silver 5 thermal paste and a lapping kit to get the best from the intel boxed fan.

Oh, and im thinking of going for the more expensive WD Raptor 74MB 10,000 rpm HD instead as it should be faster.

However... in future could I get another 10,000rpm raptor and use them in a RAID config?

Or would two of the 120Gb RAID edition 7,200rpms work out faster than a single 10,000rpm drive?

Thanks for your help everyone!

 

[BadBigBen]

Hola,

well, my experience has told me that at a HomeUser level, that a HD at 10000rpm or one at 7200rpm, you will not notice much difference. The difference would be more noticable at a Server Level (Small Business Server or bigger)...

if you wanna stick with older, go with a 875 chipset... but my opinion still holds, as the newer Chipsets have future expansion possibilities that the older ChipSets don't...



Ben

If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer...

 

[volcano69]

I would suggest having a look at the Kingston HyperX RAM. It is designed for high performance gaming, and while a little dearer, the performance makes it worthwhile.

 

[felixc]

Use an Audigy instead of an Extigy. Using USB to get sound out steals bandwidth from your system. You need all the bandwidth available to play Doom3 with all the features. As a plus the Audigy is cheaper. The greatest differentiator is the graphics card. My guess is that you will want even better in a year or two, so if you go for a PCIe mobo, you will have less stuff to get rid of to get the new graphics board that will make your 6800 look ridiculous in Dec 2005.

 

[edemiere]

I would definitely agree with going for the Athlon 64 system (Socket 939).

Also of note, the new PCI Express 6800 GT was outperformed by the AGP 8X version, though not by much. I don't expect that to always be the case. It probably stems from the fact that PCI Express is in it's infancy and AGP is more or less a proven technology.

From what I have been reading, those new LGA775 Prescott CPU's do run hotter than previous P4's, so you might want to do some legwork on them (I think I was reading it at anandtech.com but not exactly sure).

Not too sure I'd get the 6800 GT with only a 3.2GHz processer, you could save the money and get a straight 6800 and probably flash it.

I figure out a system this way. Find that mid CPU (i.e. Athlon 64 3500 +/- and then match that with a 6800GT video card since it's your middle performer of the lot).

No use building in bottlenecks from the get go, if you want to go mid, then go midrange across the board. Also, so you have a bit of overclock flexibility, make sure you get the RAM that's faster than your bus speed (i.e. get DDR433 for a DDR400 system). That way if you overclock your memory won't generate errors that prevent you from overclocking (small mistake I made with my existing system DDR333 in a 333 bus system).

Anyway, just a few pointers from my perspective. Either way I am sure you will have a nice system on your hands for your gaming needs...

Cheers!

 

[empois]

Ok, just want to say a big thanks to everyone who's helped me out here... I've taken it all on board but in the end my budget has held me back. Here's what I'm going for:

Lian-Li V1000 Case
(It's arrived - it's gorgeous!)

Antec 480 Watt True Blue Power Supply
(Because after seeing the build and design quality of the Lian-Li I didn't want to hack it apart to fit the X-Connect in!)

Microsoft Wireless Optical Desktop Elite
(Leather wrist pad... mine kills from typing on this laptop!)

WD 74Gb Raptor SATA 10,000rpm HD
(I don't need a lot of storage space, but I do want speed of repeat access.)

AOpen 16x DVD+-R/RW Dual Layer IDE RP
(16x DVD writing - does everything else as well)

In the end I just couldn't push my budget up any more to take in a S939 board and Athlon 64 3500+ so it's...

AOpen AX4SPE-MAXII S478 Intel 865PE ATX A L
(THG pick for high quality componants and good overclockability - is that a word?)

with Intel P4E 3.2 1MB S478 800FSB (Prescott)
(Didn't see the point in the extra cost/heat of a 3.4/3.6 when I want to save up for watercooling and overclock)

Corsair TWINX1024-3200XLPT XMS3200 2 x 512MB 2-2-2-5
(Most things I've read point to this being the fastest RAM available at 3200 plus its extra stable for overclocking by reducing to CAS3)

GeForce 6800GT 256MB DVI VO AGP
(I couldn't find the PCIe version in the UK and so I stuck with the AGP motherboard. However, I've heard this card will overclock to ultra speeds out of the box and that this setup will run faster than PCIe cards anyway.)

I will sell my sound blaster Extigy and look to getting a audigy card - but for now 7.1 channel on board sound will do.

Final notes: if I had money to spare I'd have gone for Socket 939 and an Athlon 64 3500+, but sadly I'm pushing the limits of my budget as it is.

I considered a PCIe board or Socket 775 but in the end reviews didn't show any advantage over S478 and the stability of the tried and tested system will allow me to make my first attempts at overclocking.

In the future I would like to invest in a good water cooling solution to help me break my OC virginity (no doubt that will be another thread!).

A socket 775 board would have given me more upgrade options but I realised that by the time I'm ready to/can afford to upgrade this baby I'll be looking at a new MB and processor anyway.

Project cost so far: £1000
Yet to decide on a display.

 

[edemiere]

Sounds good, but before you buy that 6800GT, go to guru3d.com and see how much flashing/overclocking you can do to the regular 6800.

I personally have a 5900XT 256MB and I flashed it to a 5950 Ultra with NO problems using the 500MHz on the core and 1GHz on the memory and it performs like a dream and my 3DMark03 scores went through the roof (compared to the base 5900 XT running at 400/700).

I'd never personally mess with much watercooling though, because by the time you spend the cash for a good water cooler you could have just bought the CPU you are overclocking to.

Also, on the display, I'd get a CRT or something you can pickup cheaply. This summer Thin CRT's are being released and the clarity and sharpness will put LCD's to shame. I've read the initial asking price will be slightly higher than LCD's of the same size, but will fall quickly because CRT is such a proven technology and relatively cheap to make in comparison. I need a new monitor myself but am holding out until those thin CRT's come out!

Cheers!

 

[empois]

So guess what...

errm yeh - I decided to go with you guys, bit the bullet and ordered an Athlon 64 3500+ and an MSI MS-7025 K8N Neo2 Platinum Motherboard!

It will cost about £70 more altogether but I decided it was worth the money - lots of future upgrade options as AMD are sticking with the 939 socket design for a while and I can use the 6800GT graphics card I want plus the 2-2-2-5 Corsair XLPT 3200 memory.

Kudos to edemiere for the good sensible advice and to paparazi for pointing me to the best MB for this solution so soon in the thread without me realising it!

So, the final question is... what cooling solution do I get for this? I need to save up b4 I get to watercooling so its got to be fan based to start. Got to fit the MSI board (caps quite close to the socket) Any ideas welcome and thanks for all the great advice - took me a while but ive taken it on board in the end!

Cheers, Phil

 

[paparazi]

Well much malined! but I've got the Coolermaster Hyper 6 on my Athlon64 3500 and K8 Neo2 7025, not recommended if you intend to move your PC around (weighs over a kilo) and difficult to fit, even the stock fan is rubbish but once fitted with a quality ball bearing fan this is the best air cooled cooler available.
I have also recently been very impressed by Gigabyte 3D Rocket design, I've seen one on a P4 3.2 and was very impressed by it's design and cooling.

http://www.coolermaster.com/index.p...p_serial=KHC-V81&other_title=+KHC-V81+Hyper 6

http://www.gigabyte.com/Peripherals/Products/Products_3DCooler_NewProduct_List.htm

Martin

We like members to GIVE and not just TAKE.
Participate and help others.

 

[paparazi]

Try again Gigabyte 3D Rocket

http://tw.giga-byte.com/Peripherals/Products/Products_GH-PCU22-SE (3D Rocket Cooler).htm#

We like members to GIVE and not just TAKE.
Participate and help others.

 

[empois]

well i got the system built and its great. 11103 3D marks without any overclocking. however, the gigabyte fan is noisy and doesnt seem to be doing its job very well.

i got the 3D cooler pro because i wanted the silver fan controller to match my case, but anything over 2500 rpm is just too loud and at 2500 the processor is 55 degrees C idle!

even on full its only getting down to 50 degress. best ive seen so far is 40 degrees idle and thats not very good. most reviews suggest sub 50 at full load. it was a struggle to fit as its side bars were wider than the socket it was supposed to fit into and i had to sand them down. the surface was great tho and with arctic silver 5 on it i expected better. any ideas?

Merry Xmas, Phil