advice on a high end machine

[wfbtr]

i have an exec user who uses plenty of devices and runs a few stock programs simultaneously, with dual monitors (25 inch), iPod, Palm, and all the things that pain me as the admin!

anyway, i need to purchase a high end machine that will handle all his devices and programs without any pause or noticeable delay. i'm wondering if dual processors and a couple gigs of RAM is what I'm looking for, or if i need something more specialized. i don't mind overkill, as i really don't want this headache any longer and am willing to pay for it.

most important: fast and very responsive, and able to add devices on a drunken whim!

thanks in advance.

 

[jrbarnett]

Apart from running all these devices, what does he use the machine for? Office type applications, or anything more demanding?

John

 

[jlshelton]

If you are seeing pauses/delays, you may well be experiencing problems with Windows switching among tasks that are all ready to execute. This is common when doing things like ripping CDs, scanning photos, doing photo editing, etc. Hyperthreaded CPUs (from Intel) help a little bit with this, but dual processors can help much more.

I am seriously considering a dual-core CPU for my next rig, because of all the heavy processing I do. It won't make individual applications run faster (indeed, the dual-core CPUs now from Intel and AMD actually run a bit slower), but I expect much improved responsiveness; while one CPU is handling the photo-scanning, the other one can service my mouse/kbd, letting me read email or cruise the web.

Dell already has one dual-core CPU machine available. Others are expected in the next few weeks.

Also, consider adding additional USB and/or Firewire native ports. If you have a bunch of devices sharing a single port, via USB hubs, you won't get the best performance.

Beyond a certain point, more RAM won't help. Check (via Windows Task Manager, to see what peak memory usage is. If you don't ever use more than 600mb, then it's not worth buying more than 1gb.

Some software benefits from faster video cards, mostly game software. If your boss is doing more business graphics, a better video card might not help.

As long as you're spending money, get him/her the Apple 30" LCD, which is gorgeous and lots of fun. It'll run on a Windows PC with the right (dual-port) video card.

 

[jlshelton]

Also, make sure you have separate disk drives for C: and for swap. Consider a third drive for data. Virtual Memory paging (swap) slows things down, even though you have enough RAM. When paging competes with program loading and data access, things crawl. Ideally, your blazing-fast PC will have at least three independent disks, and perhaps even RAID performance configurations for some of those. (But good fast "Raptor" drives will do the job.)

Be prepared to properly power and cool such a system....

 

[paparazi]

wfbtr
Multi tasking!
Dual core or Dual CPU really depends on if the application can take advantage of both cores/CPU's
But here's a wish list of the up and coming best.
First read:

http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20050509/

Nforce4 PCI-E motherboard socket 939 AMD
Dual core Athlon64 X2
Quality Antec/LianLi case
Antec/Enermax or similar 500watt plus PSU
OCZ or similar quality low latency memory
2 X 74GB WesternDigital Raptors in Raid
1 X 200GB Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 10
etc etc
Martin


We like members to GIVE and not just TAKE.
Participate and help others.

 

[cdogg]

wfbtr,
Pick up the June 2005 copy of Maximum PC magazine if you can still find it. It outlines perfectly the advantages and disadvantages of dual-processing, and also the major differences between AMD's and Intel's models.

In short, you will see an immediate boost in performance if multi-tasking is your game. Regardless if an application was coded for multi-threading, it gets more CPU time in a dual-processing environment if you're the kind of person that likes to run a dozen apps at once.

Now it is true that the application itself will not run faster on a dual-CPU rig versus a single-CPU rig when it's the only application running. But if you compare two such PC's again with 30 apps running, the dual-CPU rig would win hands down.

At this time, AMD's X2 CPU is the best choice of the two. It consumes less power (about a 100W average) and is built so that there is a direct connection between the two CPU's for swapping data. For ultimate dual-CPU action, AMD's Opteron is even more efficient, though much more expensive. This beast goes one step further than the X2 and gives a separate memory controller and bank of RAM to each CPU. Intel's Pentium D does neither.

~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[technome]

Want a fast machine....
Aside from the mobo choice

Raid 10, with a top end scsi raid adapter such as the Lsilogic u320-2x, for peak performance you need a pci-x bus at 133 MHz, disks mounted on both channels.Sata is another possibility, the Areca cards have excellent performance.
For faster throughput, the raid 10 should have a min of 4 disks per channel. Raid 10 is sigificantly faster than raid 1. After benchmarking with several scsi and raid adapters, having a separate disk for swap files does not speed up the machine.Always have a separate partition for the OS and the data, separate disks are unecessary. Advise against using raid 1 for anything, slow

SCSI

http://lsilogic.com/products/megaraid/index.html

SATA

http://www.areca.com.tw/products/html/pcix-sata.htm

If possible the mobo should have onboard Intel CSA network cards.

Motherboards with Pci-express are cutting edge, you need to check with the manufacturer for compatibility with addin cards

........................................
Chernobyl disaster..a must see pictorial

http://www.kiddofspeed.com/default.htm

 

[wfbtr]

thanks for the responses.
the main apps are his stock ticker programs, email, iTunes, online poker, and regular office work stuff. all at once!
but he was running several devices off a USB hub. not sure how to redo that setup, as his machine is quite some distance to his workspace.

i was looking at the dual core from dell- and even their 26" lcd t.v. to replace his dual monitor setup.

 

[sct77]

Look into the new Intel D class dual core cpu's. There are 4 or 5 models from $250 - $1000. AMD will be have dual core cpu's out soon.

 

[technome]

Dell price is obscene, Do you get a rape kit with the machine?....

Shame you need it now, few months down the road and dual processor machines will be the defacto standard, at a reasonable price.

Bet you could build it yourself for 50% less with either of the following boards.

http://supermicro.com/products/motherboard/DualCore/?chp=945

http://supermicro.com/products/motherboard/DualCore/?chp=955

........................................
Chernobyl disaster..a must see pictorial

http://www.kiddofspeed.com/default.htm

 

[sct77]

Check out the new Intel Class D cpu's. They are dual core cpu's, I think there are 4 or 5 classes ranging from $250 to $1000. AMD will be releasing there dual core soon also.

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_9485_13041,00.html

SWEET

 

[wfbtr]

fortunately price is not an issue, and i don't have the time to build one myself.
so the dual core is not a true dual processor?
and what's the difference between that and the hyper-threading?

 

[sct77]

If I could afford it I would go with AMD (But I dont think you can buy a system built with one). Hyperthreading enables multi tasking on intel chips. The dual core act just like a dual core just on one die, they have about 64Kb L1 cache and 1MB L2 per cpu. You will probably be hard pressed to find a desktop system. I can only find gaming pc with the intel dual core.

 

[wfbtr]

the new dell dimension XPS Gen5 has dual core with hyperthreading.

 

[Xaqte]

If price is not an issue:

http://www.voodoopc.com/system/quoteKitchen.aspx?productID=1051

Get at least 4 hard drives and use the RAID to optimize the performance. I've never bought from them, but have read great reviews. I'm not trying to advertise anything, but only give you what your updated post asked for.

Let us know your results!

X

 

[cdogg]

wftbr:
Not to be rude or anything, but please save others time by reading all the posts in this thread. In particular, look at the link to Tom's Hardware in paparazi's post. It's a quick reference to some details on dual core and the differences as opposed to Hyperthreading.

And just to follow up on an issue that was raised...

Dual core CPU's are just that - two CPU cores on one die. Each core is actually slower than a single core high-end CPU. The advantage here isn't full throttle speed. It's multi-tasking that pays off which is your main concern anyway.

Intel has theirs on the market already, and Dell does carry a model. But since they are hard to find, you shouldn't be surprised by the price. If a little time isn't an issue, you might want to wait about 5 months to buy a system that has an AMD dual core (they'll be out in August but not widely available until October) which will definitely have the edge on overall performance. If you have your mind made up on Dell, then now's the time since I believe they only carry Intel CPU's.

~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[paparazi]

cdogg
Each core is actually slower than a single core high-end CPU.
Only in the case of Intel but not AMD.

One of the reasons why the X2 is looking like the better CPU is that AMD have managed two full speed cores on one die where as Intel has had to lower the rating of theirs because of heat issues.

Multitasking is sure to be one of the main advantages of dual core, precisely what wfbtr is looking for in this PC.

Martin



We like members to GIVE and not just TAKE.
Participate and help others.

 

[ceh4702]

The hard drives you select can make a difference. There are some 10,000 rpm Western Digital Raptors that can speed up certains tasks a little bit because the hard drive can just be read faster. They are not that large but they are suppose to be more rugged like a SCSI Drive. I think they come in sizes like 37Gig and twice that capacity. This might speed things up a bit. A nice optical or laser mouse might be a nice addition also. A busy person might like a wireless keyboard and mouse combo or even a remote control. It might reduce clutter on the desktop.

If you do not like my post feel free to point out your opinion or my errors.

 

[cdogg]

Martin,

Actually, let me clarify what I meant...

The dual-core processors from Intel and AMD both share some of the same characteristics. The 3.2GHz version from Intel is actually two full-speed 3.2GHz CPU's together as one. Neither of the two is slower than a single 3.2GHz CPU.

Now I know what you meant. You are saying that Intel still offers faster single-core CPU's up to 3.8GHz. But that has nothing to do with a 3.2GHz core running slower than 3.2GHz.

OK, if I haven't lost you yet (let alone myself!), let me continue...
What I was trying to say was that there's a possibility that some applications will run slower on a dual rig versus a single one. The dual rigs share a memory bus, and in Intel's case the cores aren't directly connected to each other. Without getting into too much detail, the bottom line is that a dual-core cpu in some cases might perform slower than a single-core cpu for those reasons. [maroon]It's like the video card benchmark analogy, where you only see a card stand out from the rest when you turn on FSAA or increase the screen resolution.[/maroon]

It's the same here where the real benefit to dual-core only sets in when you start running 20 or 30 apps at once, or when multi-threading apps become more commonplace. That's the push both AMD and Intel want to make on software developers, and that's what Intel was hoping to start with Hyperthreading.

In a nutshell, that's why I said "slower" in some situations pertaining to both AMD and Intel!

~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[wfbtr]

thanks for the link- i was really looking for straightforward explanation, and that site was perfect.

another question- if i do go with the dual core + hyperthread, am i going to run into anything that the end user will view as a "hiccup"? in other words i don't want to find out that i need to do "this or that" because it's a dual core processor. plug and play and seemless to the user is vital.

thanks again.