411/ Directory Assistance functionality question

[TobySheer]

Hi All,

I've been trying to figure out why a customer of mine can't seem to dial anything outside his LATA while using 411.

They're originating from Sacramento, CA (through AT&T local) and apparently are unable to get 411 to provide information outside of their LATA.

I have tried this within my office since we also have AT&T local lines (POTS) and found out that we are also experiencing the same problem.

To better clarify the problem, when I pick up my phone and dial 411, I hear the auto attendant ask me 'What city/State' and when I give them something outside my own LATA, I get the message, 'That service is not available from the telephone you're using'. If I request something within my LATA (ie. San francisco), it askes me for the business/residence name.

I have been back and forth with AT&T's repair department as well as their Business office and nobody can give me a straight answer on why we're being restricted.

The only changes my customer has made recently is that they changed their PIC/LPIC provider from 0432(qwest)/9001(AT&T~I think) to 0555(MCI)/0555(MCI). Another change is that they went from being a direct retail customer to a wholesale customer (my company is a CLEC reselling AT&T service).

The only two scenarios I can think of here is that;
1) we're either being restricted by AT&T since the service is being purchased under a 'reseller' user agreement (Ts&Cs).
or...
2) 411/Directory services references your LD carrier's (PIC/LPIC) restrictions.

Do either of these scenarios make sense?

I figure that the best way to solve this problem is to figure out how 411 works. Is it handed off to the LD carrier to get it's info, or does it stay within the same infrastructure (in my case, AT&T's network) to obtain this information?

The people at AT&T seem to be of the concensus that 411/Directory Assistance is based on your LD provider, but a local Switch tech told me that the 411 calls are kept within the AT&T network. This wouldn't be the first time I got contradictory info from a Carrier though.

Any thoughts, suggestions, or advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[GHTROUT]

What happens when you call 411, and ask *them* why you can't get a distant location? They might be the only people with the right answer.

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[TobySheer]

Haha, don't get me started on the Operators. They're eager to offload you to anyone else(probably that they have a max 'talk time' for each call).

When I ask them why I can't get to remote locations, they immediately transfer me to AT&T repair. Even the Operator Supervisors can only send you to retail/wholesale repair.

Wholesale (CLEC) Repair seems to believe that 411 routing references whatever Long-Distance provider you use. If I could get a positive 'yes, this is how it works', I would be satisfied with this, but the answers I get are not really what I would consider as 'confident' answers.

We have a few ways to test this theory, but they involve switching our Long Distance carrier and making test calls. Wish me luck!

-TS

 

[GHTROUT]

What occurs when you dial 555-1212 ? Is it different?

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[TobySheer]

When I dial 555-1212 from the same POTS, I get the error, 'We're sorry, your call cannot be completed as dialed'.

In order to get remote 411 to work, I have to dial 1-areacode-555-1212.

Although this is a feasible work-around, I have a customer that is insistent on using the 411 feature. Methinks he doesn't like having the convenience of looking up things on Google instead. (yes, I'm being sarcastic)

 

[TouchToneTommy]

Can you change their ARS to route 411 to 1-800-goog-411?

 

[TobySheer]

That was my initial response to them (to call the free 411 services), but this guy's sticking to the phrase, 'It worked before I switched to your company.'.

The dilemna here is that I have a stubborn end user that wants his cake and eat it too.

I'm thinking this isn't a dealbreaker, but he'll make sure to rake the salesguy over the coals because of it.

 

[GHTROUT]

Curious is "1411" and "411" go to the same target too. I thought that, some time ago, the land line version of 411 was forced into 1411 dialing.

But hey, you're the CLEC so I would bow to your knowledge

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[TobySheer]

Actually, residential AT&T POTS CAN dial anywhere from 411 (without dialing 1 first). Of course, this still suggests that the limitation is based on who your long distance provider happens to be.

 

[SYQUEST]

The dialing format in California for N11 codes does NOT use 1+. The call is invalid and won't go through! Also in California all 555-1212 calls require NPAs: 1+NPA-555-1212 to work, that has always been that way here. California's uniform dialing plan has been in effect since the late 1980s and early 1990s when the CPUC adopted a statewide uniform dialing plan for all carriers. It was modified in 1995, when LATA toll competition was allowed and made NPAs optional within your home NPA in California. (Unknown to most people, this is now

In regards to the 411 problem, the PIC/LPIC may be part of the problem here, and with the resale of UNE (Unbundled Network Elements) for the CLEC, it could be a missing element needed to make this call function work in regards to the end office switch. I know that there are issues with PIC/LPIC in multi-LATA NPAs in routing calls to NPA-555-1212. I live in one, LATA 730 and NPA 760 is in LATA 730, 732, and 973. If you don't have a PIC you can't complete NPA-555-1212 calls to NPA 760 from NPA 714 for example.

It could be a translations issue or some missing indicator code that is needed to complete the call in the screening process when using the National Directory Assistance 411, even though the service is provided by the LEC that you are reselling.

By the way, Sacramento and San Francisco are in different LATAs, 726 and 722 respectively.

....JIM....

 

[TobySheer]

Thanks for the information Jim!

I will post the results after we change my customer's PIC/LPIC to see if this clears the trouble.