ZEN4 to 6.5 upgrade considerations ?

[organman]

I'm running ZfD 4.01 on a NW 5.1.6 server that I'm going to migrate to new hardware and NW 6.5.2.
My intention is also to upgrade to ZEN 6.5.

What will happen to ZfD when I have migrated ?
Will the NDS objects be preserved ?

Should I migrate all ZfD 4 files to the new server and try
to get it to work there ?

Do I have to reinstall ZfD 4 on the new server
and then upgrade to 6.5 ?

Should I just install ZEN 6.5 on the new server and not migrate any ZfD 4 files ?

Lot of questions, I hope someone has been there already who can share some info on these questions.

Regards
L-G Nihlman

 

[LawnBoy]

ZFD 4 is part of ZEN 6.5. Unless you need the extras ZEN 6.5 offers I'd simply migrate ZFD 4.

 

[organman]

To begin with I will only use the same functions as ZfD4 offers.
What will "simply migrate" mean in actual operations ?
Should I migrate all ZfD 4 files ?
Do I have to reinstall ZfD 4 on the new server
and then upgrade to 6.5 ?

 

[LawnBoy]

Having never migrated Zen, I'll defer to those who have...

 

[marvhuffaker]

ZDM 6.5 is not much different than ZFD 4.x. You need to understand the difference between what is on the server and what is in NDS.

All of your policies, applications, etc are in NDS and will remain intact. Moving servers won't effect these.. I have my fingers crossed when I say that because some applications could be effected if they have paths to the old server. But the NDS object itself will be okay. You can modify the paths later.

As far as the actual files, such as databases etc, I'll have to pass on that question.. Seems I remember an issue with a previous client where the zen upgrade (on the same server) corrupted the inventory databases.. Not a big deal to just start over with that though. So if it was me, I would just be inclined to install ZDM 6.5 clean on the new server.





Marvin Huffaker MCNE, CNE
Marvin Huffaker Consulting, Inc.

http://www.redjuju.com/support

 

[NewHere86]

Novell have made the upgrade process real easy. I'm about to do a 4 to 6.5 sp1a update (sp1a resolves some zenimaging issues). Check the Novell docs at

http://www.novell.com/documentation/zenworks65/index.html.

There is a heading there titled upgrade, desktop management that explains how to do this. Talks about compatibility of agents and other components. Very useful.

 

[Provogeek]

ZFD 6.5 not much differnt than 4.01?

It is true the ZEN 6.0 package was just all the current shipping version of all ZEN products, just with the patches pre installed, but 6.5 is all of those again, but things are fixed, and things are broken (no, it is not just M$ that breaks stuff with new releases and updates).

Fixed
Clientless authentication to windows distrabutions for a workstation object. In 4.01, if you were in a pure windows enviroment, ZFD4.01 has a VERY hard time pulling files from a member server of the domain when that members server is not the mid-tier or backend or have eDir on it and your app was accociated with the workstation object. Pure windows? no NetWare? yup, works great and works much better than the windows option. Novell added "proxy" (term?) user authentication to help the workstations gain the proper access to the domain. (goes a bit more indepth, but the experienced admin will get the jist of it).

Broken
Cluster no longer supported. They promis to put it back, but sofar, no go with the SP1. Cluster support will return in ZEN 7. Right now, you can install ZFD into a cluster resource and will work fine for application distrabution, but the inventory DB and the imaging will not work properly. Don't remember the inventory issue, but the image issue is because PXE can not read the NDS attribute for "Work to do", so it never does anything when you tell the system to drop or take and image.


But I have strayed off topic a bit much, to answer your question; your app objects will be fine, just be sure to double check paths if you change any of them during the migration. Policies will be fine since they are stored in NDS, be sure to double check them if server name gets changed. Imaging will be fine, be sure to check your image file path for the image object in NDS is any paths change. Workstation objects "should" be okay, but do expect some issues with Remote Control if your client PC's are on a different subnet, just recreate to repair this one. And as Marv has said, inventory will be hosed, no biggie, just recreate.

To continue on inventory, many of my clients get a bit bent out of shape when I tell them I will make zero effort to retain the inventory data when I do migrations. Why? there just is no point to putting in the extra work to do so. I could, and I could bill the time it takes to do so. The inventory database hold no history. It will always have only current data in it. So when you rebuild it, the new one will just have the same exact data as the previous one. Just figure for 25 - 150 workstations, it will take 3 days to rebuild, 151-500 will take 7 days, 501 to 1000 will take 2 weeks, 1000 to 5000 will take about a month. You can accelerate these time frames at the expense of network traffic, these time frames are with conservative policies for the gathering of inventory. So if your one of those people thats wants to hold onto your inventory database for the history, forget about it, there isn't one.

However, Novell will be introducing history to the ZEN 7 package, so there will be an inventory history in the next version.

And what ever you do, do NOT using shipping media. Download and use the SP1 media, shipping is riddled with so many bugs I have bald spots from yanking hair out trying to figure out 6.5 issues at some client sites.

In any case, you reinstalling the product. This is because when you do an across the wire migration, the migration wizard will place system directories into a SYS.MIG directory on the new server. You can take the time to pick through those and grab any ZFD files that got stored in any ofthe directories, I guestimate it would take about an hour to scan and verifiy and test to make sure you got everything. Or you can take the 10-15 minutes it will take to just reinstall the entire package. Don't worry to much about your clients, I have tested and verified my self that the 4.01 agent will work properly with the 6.5 agent; but do remember to git the clients updated also, there just ins't a rush to do it.

And for those that have experience with ZFD, git your bootie into the current training class roaming around the US. It is GREAT, no basic BS like the 3 and 4 class were. You really get the advance stuff this time (bash scripting in the imaging kernel, vbs scripting for your app distros and image setup, advance MSI packaging, and so on .... this time around it really is Advanced Technical Training, no place for mama's boys that never used ZFD before).

=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
Brent Schmidt Certified nut case
Senior Network Engineer

http://www.kiscc.com

 

[LawnBoy]

Just for my own clarification, isn't ZFD 4.01 what is included with Zenworks 6.5?

 

[Provogeek]

No, 6.5 really is a new version of ZFD.

You may be thinking of ZFD6.0 that was just 4.01 repackaged with current SP already applied.

=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
Brent Schmidt Certified nut case
Senior Network Engineer

http://www.kiscc.com

 

[marvhuffaker]

Brent, I was thinking that from a functionality perspective, ZFD 4.01 and ZDM 6.5 are pretty close. Yeah there are a few differences, a few new functions, maybe some things don't work anymore, etc.. But I was quite surprised to see a 4 page dissertation from you.. that was great. And the "Wait for the next version" was great too. Have you been hanging around Microsoft a little too much?

PS. hope to see you at Brainshare.

Marv





Marvin Huffaker MCNE
Marvin Huffaker Consulting

Home of the BLUEGUNK Punk

http://www.bluegunk.com

 

[Provogeek]

Oh, I've been dealing with so many 6.5 deployments and had so many 4.01 deployments (and still have some current 4.01 users) that I see BIG BIG differences as I try to remember what version I am on. You kow, one of those oddities when your trying to do somthing in an older version that won't work because it's not there. You only look for it because you can do it on the new version. There are a lot more, but then I would have Dave beating on my door asking why I spammed his board with a novel. I only listed the two that bugged me recently. ZFD, love the product, but when your burried in deployments, the only way I can seem to stop thinking of ZFD when I get home is by beating my self in the head with a hammer until I pass out.

Won't be at Brainshare this year, opted not to go still can't figure ot why ..... oh wait, the wife wanted me to stay home this year, thats right . But hey, you'll be able to find my company pretty easy, we won the Novell Service Excellence Award this year, so there will be a few KIS people there to accept the award, push some palms, drink some beer, and speek geek.

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Brent Schmidt Certified nut case
Senior Network Engineer

http://www.kiscc.com

 

[organman]

Thanx for all your valueble information.

Is there somewehere where I can download ZEN 6.5 desktop mgmt. SP1a overlay image file ?

Regards
Lars-Gunnar Nihlman

 

[Provogeek]

http://support.novell.com/filefinder/20557/index.html

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Brent Schmidt Certified nut case
Senior Network Engineer

http://www.kiscc.com

 

[batmac]

Provogeek -> You said that it's not necessary to migrate the datas and then that rebuild a db is very very long. What's longer? To upgrade or to rebuild?

Regards
Baptiste Cariou

 

[batmac]

Actually it depends what you mean by "rebuild". That's maybe why I don't really understand.

Does "rebuild" mean a filling up from zero of the database or the database upgrade from 4 to 6.5?

 

[Provogeek]

Rebuild means, building that database up from nothing. I didn;t say it would tkae very long to do either really, just gave guestimated time frames of how long it would take to build the data base up from nothing with out migrating the data.

You could migrate the data in the 4.x invnetory database if you wish, and it may go with out issue for you, but it may also fail.
The point I am trying to make in consern with the inventory database is that the data is NOT critical and can easily be gathered over again with out loss in productivity. It's just a suggestion, not a guid line. You can go forward and migrate the database to the 6.5 format, taking the time and planning for the migration. Or you can just take the easy way out, and allow the inventory to start over from scratch.

=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
Brent Schmidt Certified nut case
Senior Network Engineer

http://www.kiscc.com

http://www.bluegunk.com