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You're not going? 6
- Thread starter Dimandja
- Start date
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1
- #2
SantaMufasa
Technical User
If you are answering to be understood, good answers include:
![[santa]](/data/assets/smilies/santa.gif "[santa] [santa]")
Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
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Ambiguity sets in when you say,GoodAnswers said:
The "why" is, your initial response should be a direct answer to the immediately preceding question, "You're not going?" A "yes" confirms the validity of the negative assertion; a "no" denies the validity of the negative assertion, meaning, "No, I am not not going,"; cancelling out the double negatives yields, "Yes, I am going."Ambiguity said:
Mufasa(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
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I guess that would depend on if you are going or not. 
Two strings walk into a bar. The first string says to the bartender: 'Bartender, I'll have a beer. u.5n$x5t?*&4ru!2[sACC~ErJ'. The second string says: 'Pardon my friend, he isn't NULL terminated'.
Two strings walk into a bar. The first string says to the bartender: 'Bartender, I'll have a beer. u.5n$x5t?*&4ru!2[sACC~ErJ'. The second string says: 'Pardon my friend, he isn't NULL terminated'.
SilentAiche
Technical User
Dimandja,
That depends, almost entirely, on [blue]what in the heck are you talking about!![/blue]
Seriously, is there a link missing or something?
Tim
[blue]_____________________________________________________
If you need immediate assistance, please raise your hand.
If you are outside of Raleigh, raise your hand and say[/blue] [red]Ooh! Ooh![/red]
That depends, almost entirely, on [blue]what in the heck are you talking about!![/blue]
Seriously, is there a link missing or something?
Tim
[blue]_____________________________________________________
If you need immediate assistance, please raise your hand.
If you are outside of Raleigh, raise your hand and say[/blue] [red]Ooh! Ooh![/red]
If indeed you are not going, then the "correct" answer is "Yes." However, in colloquial usage the correct answer would be "No." That is, in "everyday" (read: incorrect) useage this and similar phrases are supposed to mean, "Are you going?" If someone were to approach you on the street and ask, "You're not going?" and you replied "Yes," I would wager that 99% of the time you would get a response along the lines of, "So, you are going?"
All of the above, of course, IMHO.
I used to rock and roll every night and party every day. Then it was every other day. Now I'm lucky if I can find 30 minutes a week in which to get funky. - Homer Simpson
All of the above, of course, IMHO.
I used to rock and roll every night and party every day. Then it was every other day. Now I'm lucky if I can find 30 minutes a week in which to get funky. - Homer Simpson
- Thread starter
- #6
DrJavaJoe and SilentAiche, this is not a "when did you stop beating your wife" type of question. Not intentionally anyway.
My question has to do with answering questions that are constructed as I indicated. I left all options open -- sarcastically, perhaps -- because that type of question does irritate me when it is posed. I prefer to be asked "Are you going?", for instance.
So, if you wish to contribute your thoughts, I'll be happy to read them on whether my answer is "I'm going" or I'm not going", as long as I wish to keep it short as in "Yes" or "No". The "Why", I tagged on, helps explain why your answer is correct.
My question has to do with answering questions that are constructed as I indicated. I left all options open -- sarcastically, perhaps -- because that type of question does irritate me when it is posed. I prefer to be asked "Are you going?", for instance.
So, if you wish to contribute your thoughts, I'll be happy to read them on whether my answer is "I'm going" or I'm not going", as long as I wish to keep it short as in "Yes" or "No". The "Why", I tagged on, helps explain why your answer is correct.
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- #7
chipperMDW
Programmer
I assume you know that 99% of people would reply to the question with "yes" if they were going and "no" if they weren't.
I think the "logic" behind that style of response is as follows:
Regardless of the way the question is phrased, the information that the questioner wants is the answer to the implied question, "Are you going?" They seek either a positive or a negative response. The "yes" and "no" are not direct responses to the question as phrased, but are positive and negative responses to the implied question.
The n't is a modifier to the implied question. It is generally understood to mean something to the effect of, "I would have presumed your answer to be 'yes,' but you've somehow made me doubt that; please clarify." Because of the first point, the inverted sense of the question becomes moot.
As SantaMufasa has stated, this style of response is ambiguous, and its being understood depends on the fact that both the questioner and the responder are aware of the convention and that it is in use.
What you should do depends on a whole slew of things, including your intended goals and your audience. If clarity is a primary goal, then take SantaMufasa's suggestion. If brevity trumps clarity and the extra syllable count will be a burden, go with the usual convention as long as your audience knows and expects that this will be the case.
I don't think either DrJavaJoe or SilentAiche assumed this was a wfe-beating question.
DrJavaJoe's point is certainly a valid one since you asked what the answer should be. You're really looking for the style of answer that should be given, or the meanings of both or either "yes" and/or "no" when given as answers. DrJavaJoe was simply pointing out an ambiguity in your question.
I believe that SilentAiche just didn't notice that part of the question is in the post title.
I think the "logic" behind that style of response is as follows:
Regardless of the way the question is phrased, the information that the questioner wants is the answer to the implied question, "Are you going?" They seek either a positive or a negative response. The "yes" and "no" are not direct responses to the question as phrased, but are positive and negative responses to the implied question.
The n't is a modifier to the implied question. It is generally understood to mean something to the effect of, "I would have presumed your answer to be 'yes,' but you've somehow made me doubt that; please clarify." Because of the first point, the inverted sense of the question becomes moot.
As SantaMufasa has stated, this style of response is ambiguous, and its being understood depends on the fact that both the questioner and the responder are aware of the convention and that it is in use.
What you should do depends on a whole slew of things, including your intended goals and your audience. If clarity is a primary goal, then take SantaMufasa's suggestion. If brevity trumps clarity and the extra syllable count will be a burden, go with the usual convention as long as your audience knows and expects that this will be the case.
I don't think either DrJavaJoe or SilentAiche assumed this was a wfe-beating question.
DrJavaJoe's point is certainly a valid one since you asked what the answer should be. You're really looking for the style of answer that should be given, or the meanings of both or either "yes" and/or "no" when given as answers. DrJavaJoe was simply pointing out an ambiguity in your question.
I believe that SilentAiche just didn't notice that part of the question is in the post title.
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- #8
I haven't heard this before, so started playing through some scenarios - have to say, I agree, but I don't think I would have noticed it myself.chipper said:
However, whatever the general response is, to leave the other person with uncertainty about how to respond to your question seems inconsiderate, or thoughtless, to me. When this happens, and if I know the person, I have taken to try and draw attention to the ambiguity (possibly asking what they would understand if I answered, 'Yes' - 'Yes, I am going', or 'Yes, I am not going'). If I know them well, sometimes I will just say, 'Yes' and pause, to highlight the ambiguity - let them ask the question they mean to clarify what I mean!
With strangers, I tend to answer as Santa suggests.
Dimandja,
I'm with you on this one - very irritating indeed!
Tony
___________________________________________________
Reckless words pierce like a sword,
but the tongue of the wise brings healing (Solomon)
CajunCenturion
Programmer
When I've encountered someone saying, "You're not going", it is not so much a direct question, as it is a statement of surprise, perhaps expressing incredulity. I think the ambiguity comes from the fact that even though it is a statement, it is said, or intoned, as a question. You really don't know if they are asking "Are you going?", or if they are asking you to confirm that "you're not going."
You might even consider the question to be rhetorical, because saying nothing probably confirms the statement.
In my opinion, the clearest response is either "No, I am not going,", or "Yes, I am going."
Good Luck
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You might even consider the question to be rhetorical, because saying nothing probably confirms the statement.
In my opinion, the clearest response is either "No, I am not going,", or "Yes, I am going."
Good Luck
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To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
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craigsboyd
IS-IT--Management
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1
- #12
RodKnowlton
MIS
- Apr 26, 2000
- 1,005
I'd go with "That's right" or "That's correct" if I wasn't going.
The earlier "*, I am not going" responses are unambiguous, but they also sound like overt corrections of the interogator's question, seems less polite.
Besides, succinctness is the quintessence of jocularity.
Rod Knowlton
IBM Certified Advanced Technical Expert pSeries and AIX 5L
CompTIA Linux+
CompTIA Security+
The earlier "*, I am not going" responses are unambiguous, but they also sound like overt corrections of the interogator's question, seems less polite.
Besides, succinctness is the quintessence of jocularity.
Rod Knowlton
IBM Certified Advanced Technical Expert pSeries and AIX 5L
CompTIA Linux+
CompTIA Security+
Dave, doesn't the add-on "..I'm not going" remove any ambiguity?Dave said:
I also wonder if sometimes a simple "Yes" or "No" will be an adequate and appropriate response, depending on the context. Consider:
Scenario 1:
Party A: I know I've already bought the tickets, but I've heard the concert is rubbish, so I'm not going.
Party B: You're not going?
Party A: No. You can have the ticket, if you like.
Scenario 2:
Party A: I'm afraid I've got to get back to relieve the babysitter.
Party B: You're not going?
Party A: Yes. Thanks for a great evening, though.
In the first scenario, Party B is seeking clarification that Party A is definitely NOT going. In the second, Party B is clarifying that Party A IS going, possibly expressing regret at this decision.
Tony
___________________________________________________
Reckless words pierce like a sword,
but the tongue of the wise brings healing (Solomon)
Rod,
Here's another example of this ambiguity.
Scene: I have a cake I no longer want.
Q: Don't you want that cake?
A: (logically) Yes (I do not want that cake)
A: (normally) No (I do not want that cake)
We don't tend to unstitch the logic of a question before answering, nor should we be expected to. I take your point that it could be considered impolite to overtly correct the 'interogator' (nice choice of word, by the way), but I maintain it is inconsiderate to phrase the question so poorly. This is why I like Sleipnir214's signature so much: "Want the best answers? Ask the best questions!"
Tony
___________________________________________________
Reckless words pierce like a sword,
but the tongue of the wise brings healing (Solomon)
Here's another example of this ambiguity.
Scene: I have a cake I no longer want.
Q: Don't you want that cake?
A: (logically) Yes (I do not want that cake)
A: (normally) No (I do not want that cake)
We don't tend to unstitch the logic of a question before answering, nor should we be expected to. I take your point that it could be considered impolite to overtly correct the 'interogator' (nice choice of word, by the way), but I maintain it is inconsiderate to phrase the question so poorly. This is why I like Sleipnir214's signature so much: "Want the best answers? Ask the best questions!"
Tony
___________________________________________________
Reckless words pierce like a sword,
but the tongue of the wise brings healing (Solomon)
SantaMufasa
Technical User
Rod, it's been years since I was physically fit enough to participate in jocularity, especially quintessent jocularity...Sounds exhausting to me.![[wink]](/data/assets/smilies/wink.gif "[wink] [wink]")
Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
Do you use Oracle and live or work in Utah, USA?
Then click here to join Utah Oracle Users Group on Tek-Tips.
Mufasa(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
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Then click here to join Utah Oracle Users Group on Tek-Tips.
SilentAiche
Technical User
Dimandja,
No offense intended, I really thought something was amiss from your post.
ChipperMDW got it exactly right - I'm accustomed to the entire scenario presenting itself within the post itself (not the title).
To answer the original question, the first scenario that occurred to me was my friends in High School, regarding the Prom: [blue]You're not going!?"[/blue] NO!.
Tim
(mainly because she was seeing another guy, etc., etc,...)
[blue]_____________________________________________________
If you need immediate assistance, please raise your hand.
If you are outside of Raleigh, raise your hand and say[/blue] [red]Ooh! Ooh![/red]
- Thread starter
- #17
SantaMufasa
Technical User
Elanor, it's even quicker if you say, "I Must." ![[smile]](/data/assets/smilies/smile.gif "[smile] [smile]")
Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
Do you use Oracle and live or work in Utah, USA?
Then click here to join Utah Oracle Users Group on Tek-Tips.
Mufasa(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
Do you use Oracle and live or work in Utah, USA?
Then click here to join Utah Oracle Users Group on Tek-Tips.
Hey Mufasa!
True for ordinary people, but you don't know these babes...they're tougher than that! They'd fix me with basilisk eyes and demand, "MUST you?" ... the prelude to the "what could possibly be more important than visiting us?" argument. I can make "I have to" sound MUCH whinier and filled with regret than "I must!"
Thanks!
Elanor
True for ordinary people, but you don't know these babes...they're tougher than that! They'd fix me with basilisk eyes and demand, "MUST you?" ... the prelude to the "what could possibly be more important than visiting us?" argument. I can make "I have to" sound MUCH whinier and filled with regret than "I must!"
Thanks!
Elanor
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