You Tube video, copyright and training 1

[Welshbird]

I want to use part of some elses you tube video to include in a training presentation.

It seems to me that using only a part of something might be covered under 'fair use' legislation, but I just wondered if anyone has any thoughts.

(I would of course credit the original uploader of the video - Do I actually need thier permission also?)



Fee

"The cure for anything is salt water – sweat, tears, or the sea." Isak Dinesen

 

[Opieo]

Technically, as long as it is for educational purposes and you aren't using it to make a profit, then it should be covered under the US's fair use laws. The fair use laws vary from country to country (they are called fair dealing in many other nations) so your mileage may vary with that one. At least as far as the US laws go though, using them for training is more than likely okay as long as training is not the primary service you are selling. However it wouldn't hurt to consult a lawyer who greatly specializes in IP. (I have a passion about IP, but it is mostly to see it get reduced to next to nothing as I personally see it as absurd, but that is its own beast and not on topic)

That being said, if it is just an individual and not a large company that put the video up, there is really no harm in asking them and chances are they will say yes you can. It would of course depend on the person, but they did put it up on YouTube for all to see.

What I can tell you for sure is that as long as it does classify under fair use, you do not need the creator's permission at all. IP laws are quite complex but that one I am sure on for all countries (all countries that recognize an idea of fair use, not all do). That was the idea behind fair use, to create exemptions where you were allowed to use it safely even if the creator doesn't like it (documentaries are big on this). However, it also wouldn't stop them from suing you anyways trying to claim that it isn't fair use. Then you get to go through the court system to have it declared either fair use or not fair use. (These complexities are why I do not like the current system)

Either way I wish you the best of luck in reaching a good solution. It may very well just be easiest to ask the creator if you can use it and credit them as it is viewed as a courteous thing to do. Just my 2 cents.

~
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[CajunCenturion]

==> Technically, as long as it is for educational purposes and you aren't using it to make a profit, then it should be covered under the US's fair use laws.
That is only one of four criteria used in the USA to determine fair use. You must also consider the type of work, the amount of the material being used in relationship to the whole, and the potential for economic damage to the copyright holder. Fair use is not meeting just one requirement, but being fair use with respect to all four areas.

Granted, using the video as part of training course is educational, but if you're charging for the training, then it could be an area of concern. Even if the training comes free as part of some other purchase, it's a gray area. With respect to the amount of video being used, again, it's a gray area. I wouldn't use more than roughly 20% or more than about 30 seconds or so. Any more than that, you risk the danger of exceeding fair use limits.

The bottom line is that fair use is very subjective, and the best bet is to consult counsel, and in your case, I suspect you need to check with UK and European laws.

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[kmcferrin]

That is only one of four criteria used in the USA to determine fair use.

Just as a clarification, there is no such thing as a "fair use" law in the United States. Fair use is a legal concept that has arisen from and been shaped by court decisions in copyright infringement cases. While there are certain criteria that courts may use in determining if the use of copyrighted material falls under the category of "fair use" or "copyright infringement" it is important to keep in mind that these are criteria under the discretion of the judge. That is, if the judge thinks that you meet the criteria of fair use then you'll probably be OK, but if there is enough grey area that the outcome is in doubt then you may have issues.

Additionally, if the copyright holder chooses to pursue action against you for infringement then you may have to mount a legal defense. This could be simply a matter of having your lawyer send a letter to their lawyer saying "we believe that this is fair use and we're willing to defend ourselves in a court of law," or it could mean actually fighting the case in court.

If you are in doubt or the potential risk for infringement action is high, ask for permission (and professional legal advice).

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[Welshbird]

I guess the best idea is to ask for permission then.

It's a video put up by an individual who was documenting her symptoms of a disease.

The training is purely internal and is just to show the non-medical members of the team what the disease looks like so that it somehow becomes more 'real' to them.

But I guess asking for permission is not actually a bad idea - and if it is granted then I'll be covered, no?

(I'd guess offering to supply the original person with the material I'm going to want to use probably would be a nice idea too).

Thanks all.

Fee

"The cure for anything is salt water – sweat, tears, or the sea." Isak Dinesen

 

[lionelhill]

Personally I prefer to ask for permission anyway, if I can possibly trace the origin of the material. It is just good manners.

Also once I was on the other side of the table when a gentleman sent me an e-mail saying he'd lifted the entire contents of a website involving me, and was using it in his not-for-profit lecturing. He was clearly loopy, and his online documentation for his lecture was just plain weird (fortunately also so huge that no one would reasonably download it). I was really unhappy about my name being used in it, but I don't think he ever took my name off. Wretched info-thief.

 

[Welshbird]

Actually, I agree Lionelhill. I'll ask for permission should we decide that we want to use it.

Manners are important.

(That'll be me getting a spiritual kick up the ar$e then!)

Fee

"The cure for anything is salt water – sweat, tears, or the sea." Isak Dinesen

 

[lionelhill]

sorry, didn't mean to kick any backsides! That wouldn't be good manners at all.

 

[Welshbird]

It's quite alright! I deserved it.

Fee

"The cure for anything is salt water – sweat, tears, or the sea." Isak Dinesen

 

[Diancecht]

IMHO, if you publish a video on a public site like Youtube, you should know that anyone else can see and use it. It's public now. Of course, laws are different depending on the countries.

Now I have a question for the OP: are you planning just to show the video or you want to download and distribute it with your presentation?

If it's the first case, then I think is more than fair to use it entirely. Or would you ask for permission to a webmaster to show his web on a presentation?

And I'd like to consider another option. What would happen if all attendees have a laptop and you just tell them to watch the video? Would you also have to ask for permission?

Cheers,
Dian

 

[Welshbird]

Good questions Dian - I'd aimed to download and edit - purely becuase the clips are too long for my purpose. So I want to show just 'clips of the clips' as it were.

I'm not sure that I strictly need permission, but I agree with Lionel that it would just be good manners to ask.



Fee

"The cure for anything is salt water – sweat, tears, or the sea." Isak Dinesen