XP - The death of Microsoft? 8

[Sensibilium]

So, it appears that Microsoft no longer trusts it's customers. How can they believe that Product Activation is a good thing for protecting consumers from the evils of piracy?

Personally, I think this will be make or break for MS, will everyone be shelling out for their software, and then be forced to activate it over the internet? For a start, are all consumers of Windows and Office really connected to the internet? I think not.

What does the future for the company I work for hold?
Well, we will be only going as far as Windows 2000 and Office 2000. If MS don't realise their mistake then we will continue to use this system until something better comes along.

Linux anyone? Ahdkaw
"What would you expect from a bunch of monkeys?"

http://www.sensibilium.com

 

[Voyager1]

Is it really the consumers they are protecting? I think not.

Microsoft has the right to ensure that people are using legal, legitimate copies of their software. That is, after all, their business - selling software. I have no problem buying and paying for what I use. Activation? What is the problem? Citrix Systems has been doing it for years without any real complaints. They offer phone/fax options if there is no connection to the net.

Anyone who has a major problem with activating software (there is usually a trial period) is probably hiding something.

Linux? Like I'm really going to bet my entire enterprise on a free operating system, with little software and support.

Sheesh...X-) - Bill

"You can get anything you want out of life, if you'll just help enough other people get what they want" - Zig Ziglar

 

[Sensibilium]

My point is that if I have paid for a piece of software, I shouldn't have to do Bill's work for him. It's not my job to fight piracy of M$ products or any other companies products, it is their job. They need a form of copy-protection that works, don't ask me how to do it, it's not my job!

Anyway, it seems odd that M$ is soooo concerned with piracy when Bill is the richest man in the world, strangely in fact, it seems that piracy has done nothing to harm to funds of Microsoft...

Ahdkaw

"What would you expect from a bunch of monkeys?"

http://www.sensibilium.com

 

[Voyager1]

Ahdkaw,

Uncle Bill's personal fortune and Microsoft's anti-piracy efforts, IMHO, are not the slightest bit related.

If you were an extremely wealthy person (and you might be, I don't know) and someone were stealing some of the products you produce, how would you react? You may overlook it to a certain extent, but eventually you'd have to do something about it.

From what I have heard, software piracy amounts to something on the order of $300-$400 million a year, and that's just Microsoft. Yes, they are a wealthy company. They do, however, have the right to protect their products.

I don't have a problem with registering or activating a piece of software. Never have. - Bill

"You can get anything you want out of life, if you'll just help enough other people get what they want" - Zig Ziglar

 

[gunthnp]

Microsoft does have the right to protect there software from priacy but they but not at the stake to my right to privacy. The differnces from microsoft and citrix is how many home user use citrix. Corperation pirvacy is differnt from a persons pirvacy. We must gaurd a persons pirvacy much more. So long and thanks for all the fish.

 

[PhiloVance]

I don't know how MS intends to 'license' their products in the future, but as Voyager1 said:

"Activation? What is the problem? Citrix Systems has been doing it for years without any real complaints."

Gotta go along with him. I work in the mainframe arena and most of our software vendors license their products on a yearly basis...you don't pay, you don't get a new license'. I'm not in the financial end of this, so I don't know how much it is, but since we run OS390, it's probably quite high. But then this is a business and that's the cost of doing business.

In the mainframe sector we don't have the variety that is present in the pc sector (various companies writing competing programs), there is some competition. If all else fails, IBM will usually have a generic product available. Although they've been scared for years to enter into the 'software' side after their 20 year legal battle with DOJ over unbundling the software/hardware.

With the internet now, the mainframe is bending and linking with the 'net' and so too, on the pc side they are writing apps that can interface with the mainframe.

That said, I see this as a meeting of the minds. Mainframe software developers have charged a 'maintenance fee' for years. It provides support, upgrade to the latest release, and continued use of the product. Most mainframe shops, as I said, see this only as a cost of doing business.

I don't think the idea is new, actually, I don't think any idea is new, just restated!

Ahem!
PhiloVance
Other hobbies, interests: Travel, Model RR (HO Gauge), Genealogy.

 

[Voyager1]

License activation is no different than visiting the "Windows Update" site on the web. Think what you will aboout Microsoft, I doubt seriously that they have a major integrity problem concerning your privacy.

Connect to any website, including this one. You have now opened the door.

Keep smiling... - Bill

"You can get anything you want out of life, if you'll just help enough other people get what they want" - Zig Ziglar

 

[pivan]

Wow...let me throw my 4.5 cents in and really upset some folks.

First, on-line activation is a real pain. Inprise now has it and I thought it was a needless waste of my time.
And it serves no viable purpose that I can see.

It doesnt even prevent piracy...lets see...I buy the Foundation version for $49.00 ...get the key gen hack and PRESTO I now have the multi thousand dollor Enterprise version!! And hey...as it turns out...I never even needed to activate the initial package in the first place.

Man...software piracy is alive and well and all to easy. There is not a lot we can do about it. Its a virtual honor system. (Don't get me wrong, the applications that I use to generate my income, I pay for and am licensed for them. Kharma you know.)

I view software piracy as a re-distribution of wealth (being a card carrying Marxist What can Phillip Kahn do with 12 Ferrari's. And tell me about how sorry I feel for Gate's lost revenues of $400 million a year due to pirated software...against how much in net profit??? Its all part of the business risk.

Sorry folks...I just dont have that much sympathy for the excessivley wealthy and dishonest.

Keep up the software honor system.

Cheers,
Ivan

"All power, to all people, all the time."



In not now, when?
If not here, where?
If not us, who?
Just do it!!

 

[Voyager1]

Again, I ask the question: If you were manufacturing a product to sell, and individuals and companies all over the planet were stealing it on a daily basis, what would you do?

Individual wealth, annual revenue and all that other stuff has NOTHING to do with it.

- Bill

"You can get anything you want out of life, if you'll just help enough other people get what they want" - Zig Ziglar

 

[gunthnp]

This is not being done to protect there software, this is being done so they can get more info on us, the user. We live in a day where companies think "I order to server you better" they need to every last thing about you even what color your thooth floss you like. If Microsoft wanted realy to protect their software there are better ways :

sentinal locks, license disk (I have seen some that are just about Imposable to crack), and there are more.

Look at what the pirvacy policy of passport up to a month ago (they changed it a month ago when people finaly got mad about it), They owned any thing you did with passport, email sent though hotmail, every thing you did if you have msn. Come on these people are not trying to portect there software they want info and that is all.


P.S. I am not as paranoid as I might sound here I beleave most people are good but if you look at money and (today that means info) to closely you forget to look up, sometimes we all need a tap on the shoulder. So long and thanks for all the fish.

 

[pivan]

Well Bill..
You raise a good point.
Two observations.
First.
The obvious...if so many people are stealing my product, that I cannot make a profit, I could not stay in business.

I therefore, would take steps to safeguard my product from stealing.

All of your software companies have done this, some with minor amounts of encumbrance placed upon the user.

Second observation, I am trying to recall how many software companies have gone out of business because "companies all over the planet were stealing it on a daily basis". Umm..can't think of any. Microsofts bottom line seems to be pretty strong, Rational also.

"Individual wealth, annual revenue and all that other stuff has NOTHING to do with it." Is key to the whole privacy - piracy issue...and pretty much everything outside the spiritual side of life. At least for me. If software company was not interested in annual revenue (to maximize shareholder wealth) then they wouldn't be worried about how people obtain there product. It would be a shareware company. Pay whatever you can afford.

Best Regards,
Ivan In not now, when?
If not here, where?
If not us, who?

Just do it!!

 

[Voyager1]

So, what you are saying is that if a company is financially stable and not in danger of being forced out of business, then it is OK to steal their products - is that right?

- Bill

"You can get anything you want out of life, if you'll just help enough other people get what they want" - Zig Ziglar

 

[mrsurrender]

Don't forget that it has been the fact that MS products have been spread widely that they became that strong. It is not just the quality of a product, it is whether people know about the product.
Do you believe that Microsoft Office became that popular because of the quality? Yes, it has good quality, but there where other products with similar quality.

What did the (former) CEO of Star say a few years ago: "We want StarOffice to take the place No. 2 in the world. So we spread it for free to students, home users and so on." That man knew that if he had a chance to beat others he has to be well known. What would you as a system administrator decide for, the product you know (using it illegal at home) or anything you don't know anything about? At least you feel a little more secure about the one you know already.

What are the advantages of Linux. Not only stability. People get interested because they get offered soething for (almost) free. There are other OS beside MS and Linux, but they don't make the race so far. Why? Because they are not popular. How do they become popular? By sharing it to private people for free. So MS should go for it and let private users get MS software at a much lower price.

CU.
Siegfried.

 

[mrsurrender]

After all, I come to the conclusion:

Without illegal copies of MS products, MS would never had gone that rich. :-|

Siegfried.

(BTW: I have legally bought the MS products I use...)

 

[Voyager1]

mrsurrender, you raise a couple of interesting points, and perhaps you are correct. After all, that's what the shareware market is all about - wide distribution.

But, it's really not the point. Whether it's a good idea or not, and whether it has been good for Microsoft (in the long run) or not, piracy is still illegal. Plain and simple.

- Bill

"You can get anything you want out of life, if you'll just help enough other people get what they want" - Zig Ziglar

 

[gunthnp]

this is not about us taking MS software, but about where or if there is a line that a software company can cross that is just to much to protect its software. If so what is that line? So long and thanks for all the fish.

 

[pivan]

gunthnp makes a good point. I think they cross the line in the Product Activation schemes.

When I get a CD...I want to get going with it ...like now!!
I don't have the time, patience (or consience )to be messing around logging in to the internet, looking for some obscure URL, and then filling out form upon form of personal data. I mean its my CD... I bought it..period.

Now I could see a point to this if it prevented piracy (albeit still irratating). But does it really? No way... not when you can get CD burners now for under $200. It seems that it is just a way to get marketing data.

Could you imagine if you had to do this everytime you but an audio CD at Wal Mart??? Man...my daughters would be either living at WalMart activating their N Sync and Brittany Spears CD's or on the internet even more than they are now.

So I guess the real solution to this whole piracy deal is to have a world full of honest people. Then us software developers wouldn't have to worry about piracy, and could concentrate on selecting the color of out next 'Vette or Viper.

PS..A local firm that builds and sells pc's and ships them with an illegal version of MS Windows was reported to Microsofts Piracy Line. After two or three reports, and one year in time passed, this firm is still doing the same thing. I guess MS wasn't that interested in stopping this thrice reported act of piracy.

Cheers,
Ivan


In not now, when?
If not here, where?
If not us, who?

Just do it!!

 

[mrsurrender]

Voyager1, You are right. Illegal is illegal.

What I was trying to point out is that the common practice in private homes shouldn't be illegal anymore.

For example: You can use a software for $10 (or for free) if you use it at home. If you use it commercially, you will have to pay $100.

Now. Every company could buy the $10 licence to get the CD or so. But it still would be illegal, even if they paid something. If I had a commercial use of it at home, I would be in the same conflict, but that's okay, I think. If I use it commercial, I have to pay extra.

That helps me getting to know the software and use it durable (not the shareware idea, which always sets a time limit), but within commercial use I pay for it.

That's what lots of companies do, e.g.

http://www.free-av.de

who got an excellent AntiVirus-Tool.

The other thing, whether I would like MS rob my privacy or not is another story, mixed together in this thread. But if the motive would be, that they want to prevent themselves of robery, my idea would be fine. So I think like others here, their major intrest are my private dates, not the lost money, because someone didn't pay some royalty fee.

Never stop thinking!

Siegfried.

 

[Voyager1]

Now, there is one thing that I can "excitedly" agree with: they collect way too much demographic data on these activation sites. I have no problem whatsoever proving that this is a legal copy of the software, but it's none of their business what my income range is and all that hoo-ha. - Bill

"You can get anything you want out of life, if you'll just help enough other people get what they want" - Zig Ziglar

 

[Sensibilium]

So are we agreed? Product Activation is a foolish move by MS?

Mr Surrender has a very good point, why should we have to activate something that we have paid good money for? We shouldn't have to.

How many home users do you know that can afford to pay for a fully-licenced copy of Office? I don't know that many. The major shift in home PC owners (especially in the UK) is toward reconditioned PC's costing anywhere from £200 to £400 (and then Office ends up costing more their PC). And why do they do this? Because they cannot afford anything more, try saving for a killer PC when on unemployment benefit.

PC's are now advertised so much as to make them almost essential to living. Even the UK Government wants even the poorest individuals on the internet. The fact is that internet users are still a minority in comparison to the entire world population and until software producers and PC manufacturers realise this and reduce prices to the home user it will remain so.

Home users should be allowed to have any software for free as long as they do not use it for commercial purposes (and if they do, yes, they should be arrested and charged). Otherwise I don't see how the internet is ever going to 'change the world' as the spin-doctors would have it.

The British invented the internet and the Americans rule over it. Until the third world is finally given a chance to have electricity supply and all the other mod cons, this great beast known as the internet (as well as computers in general) will remain as a toy of the privileged.

PS: My website is offline so don't try to follow the link below. Ahdkaw
"What would you expect from a bunch of monkeys?"

http://www.sensibilium.com