would you terminate employee?

[KellyK]

If you discovered that one of your employees was circulating his/her resume outside of the company, would that be grounds for dismissal? Is it ethical to terminate a well-performing associate based on his lack of loyalty to the company? Would you attempt to "reel him back in" and find out what would keep him engaged in his current job, or would assume if it's to the point that he's looking elsewhere, you've already lost him?

Kelly

 

[RoyVidar]

Return question: Is it ethical to assume lack of loyalty if an employee circulates their resume?

Could it be they have other motives, for instance finding out what they are worth in the market, to use in salary negotiations?

Unless the contract with the employee explicitly prohibits them from keeping in touch with the job market in such ways, I wouldn't dare trying anything, but then, where I reside, employees have rather strong legislative protection.

I would rather ask them, best in a non-confrontal way, if they were planning to leave. And if that was their intention, continue to ask what would make them continue in your company, if that is what you wish.

Roy-Vidar

 

[MasterRacker]

It's usually against company policy to look for work on company time or using company resources.

What a person does on their own time is their own business. I would recommend to anyonw to always keep tehir resume up to date and in circulation. You never know what might come along.

<sub>Jeff
[purple]It's never too early to begin preparing for [/purple]International Talk Like a Pirate Day

I was not born cynical - I earned my cynicism through careful observation of the world around me.</sub>

 

[svanels]

If my boss was telling me that he would dismiss me because my CV was circulating outside, I would walk right-out the door ,never work for him again, and start a legal battle.
If my CV is circulating outside the company, I do not see company time involved. How can a piece of paper that is somewhere else can be attributed to company resource/time, they are not paying that piece of paper.

Unless you are that stupid to write the CV on company paper with logo, phone and correspondence address

Steven

 

[lionelhill]

(1) Why does this person show an inclination to leave? Are they not suitable for their present post? Are they ambitious and unable to fulfil their ambitions within your company? Or maybe they feel aggrieved about something? Are they valuable enough to your company that it might be worth finding out?

(2) Would you also dismiss someone for reading the jobs page of the local newspaper?

(3) Have you ever recruited someone who, at the time of recruitment, was working elsewhere? If so, in what way did that differ from this person's desire to be recruited elsewhere, while still currently working for you?

 

[dyarwood]

Do you intend on staying with this company until you retire? If you don't then are you going to resign before you even start looking? How would you feel if your CV was found and you were terminated on the basis that someone saw your CV?

I recently got a new job (2 months ago) but I posted my CV on several job sites. I am more than happy with my role and would not want to leave. I have not removed my CV as I have not be bothered to. As it is still out there does that mean I don't have company loyalty? No it does not. If an employee is looking for new work, ask yourself is the company satisfying the employees needs (if you want to keep them)

If you were to terminate the employee on those grounds then it would be very dodgy ground if you were sued for unfair dismissal.

 

[chiph]

People come and go. It's a fact of life in the business world. Sure, it happens at inconvenient times, but that's life.

Like the others above have said, they shouldn't be using company resources (photocopier, phone, email, etc) for their job search. They should be doing it at home.

But so far as being let go for "disloyalty" -- that would say to be that the company (or at least their manager) has some problems, and it's best to be out of there in any case.

From the company's side of things -- if someone is looking, I'd want to know why, especially if they're a good worker and someone that was respected. Maybe there's something about the company that can be fixed, in order to attract and retain talent in the future.

Chip H.


____________________________________________________________________
If you want to get the best response to a question, please read FAQ222-2244 first

 

[langleymass]

The fact that you would even consider this makes it easy to understand why your employee is considering leaving. I bet he's not the only one. Every manager has the turnover he deserves. There was a great article in _Info World_:

http://www.infoworld.com/articles/ca/xml/01/01/15/010115carecruit.html

"PEOPLE DON'T QUIT JOBS. They quit managers. This statement could be your wake-up call:"

 

[SantaMufasa]

Kelly,

I, personally, work in an "at will" state, meaning you work at a company as long as it is the mutual will of you and the employer...You can leave when you want (for no reason), but unfortunately, you can be terminated for no reason, as well.

As long as there is equilibrium in the job market, this means people work pretty hard at their jobs and employers work pretty hard at keeping their employees.

Now, to your question specifically.

Is it ethical to terminate a well-performing associate based on his lack of loyalty to the company?

First, in this day and age, in the U.S. at least, virtually no one works for the same company their entire lives. Companies generally want to retain good employees for as long as they can keep them. But also, companies recognise that they keep their employees via a variety of "hooks" such as good pay, good benefits, good working environments, et cetera. But frankly, companies do not expect employees to stay simply for the sake of "loyalty". Although loyalty is certainly commendable, most companies consider an employee who would stay for the sake of "loyalty" only, to be a "sad sap", especially since companies faced with financial expediencies generally have no "loyalty" qualms about letting employees go during belt tightening phases.


Therefore, if you live in a state where a "case" needs to be built before firing an employee, even in such states with legal protections on either side, you would be hard pressed to prove that "circulating a resume" is proof of disloyalty, unless it is occurring on company time.

If I am a manager wanting to keep an otherwise talented and hard-working employee who is circulating her/his resume, then I would sit down with her/him and say, "<Name>, I believe you are a hard-working, talented employee here at <company_name> who contributes in valuable and important ways. We want to provide a working environment for you that would cause you to want to stay with us. I'm aware that you are circulating your resume. So, before you choose to leave us, I would like to know what things, within reason, we can do to encourage you to stay."

Listen intently to their concerns and suggestions, and you may discover interesting feedback. If their suggestions are managable within your budget/influence, and you are willing to implement the suggestions, then you can ask, "If we implement your suggestions of A, B, and C, by doing D, E, and F, then can we depend upon your staying?"

Even then, if s/he aggrees to stay, they are not your indentured servant, and failing a contract containing a end-of-contract date, you cannot compel an employee to stay.

Let us know how things turn out.

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)

http://www.dasages.com

Do you use Oracle and live or work in Utah, USA?
Then click here to join Utah Oracle Users Group on Tek-Tips.

 

[rosieb]

Why wait for staff to circulate CVs or show dissatisfaction?

Surely any decent manager is constantly looking at how their staff can be developed, what their career aspirations are, and how to help them progress (if that's what they want).

"Just" making sure staff know that they are valued is one of the best ways to keep them.

Sometimes people outgrow the company where they work, that doesn't mean they have to leave on bad terms. I have, in the past, advised good staff to look elsewhere. That way I always got an easy handover, and the possibility of recruiting them back if the situation changed.

Besides, some "churn" is good for any group. It brings in new ideas. A group that never changes tends to be inflexible and unable to react to changing circumstances.

Rosie
"Never express yourself more clearly than you think" (Niels Bohr)

 

[Kjonnnn]

While an at-will employee can be fired for anything, what is your "cause of action" for firing an employee that has his/her resume circulating? Is the person bad mouthing the company?

Frankly, it sounds almost like one of those abusive relationship, if I'm going to get fired because I gave out some resumes. Meaning, if I was hired by your company, I can NEVER look for another job.

Doesn't sound like somewhere great to work to me. Maybe that's why they are looking elsewhere.

 

[chiph]

Meaning, if I was hired by your company, I can NEVER look for another job.

Right. As far as I know, employment contracts do not contain the phrase "until death do us part".

Chip H.


____________________________________________________________________
If you want to get the best response to a question, please read FAQ222-2244 first

 

[KellyK]

Thanks for all the great feedback, guys. The reason I asked is that a friend of mine recently was terminated from his job because he was caught sending out resumes. I don't know the specifics as far as if he used company resources or researched jobs on company time, but I too have been sending out a few resumes/c.vs here and there and got a little nervous upon my friend's dismissal. We do not work for the same company. As it turns out, my friend suspects his leader was looking for a reason to term him because the two did not get along.

Kelly

 

[svanels]

a friend of mine recently was terminated from his job because he was caught sending out resumes

Sounds like he was caught red-handed (company resources)

two did not get along

If there is animosity between them, a separation is the best solution.

Steven

 

[cdogg]

Sounds like he was caught red-handed (company resources)

Not necessarily with company resources. It's quite possible the "catch" was simply just seeing the resume online at a website like Monster.

If that's the case, I would say this person has grounds for a potential lawsuit against the manager, company, or both depending on what was specified in any employment agreements they may have signed. It is not usually within an employer's rights unless some kind of written agreement stating so was signed by the employee.

~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[DPlank]

[tongue in cheek answer to the thread title]
Depends how much they annoyed/patronised/undermined me.
[/tongue in cheek answer to the thread title]

Cheers,
Dave

Probably the only Test Analyst Manager on Tek-Tips...therefore whatever it was that went wrong, I'm to blame...

animadverto vos in Abyssus!

Take a look at Forum1393!

 

[MDXer]

I'd say it depends on the company, the companies products/technology, the person, their position, and current standing.


If a company is a technology or software development company then the fear of the company is that the person may be hired by competition and the person may take valuable IP with them. Or if the Person is in Sales and has a large client base it could be that the company fears the person may walk with their client list.

As illegal or unethical as these to cases may be they are both quite real. If the person is borderline anyway it is just an oppertunity to get rid of the person. In the US many States are At will, which require very little cause to terminate and if the employee has a shotty record or rubs mgmt the wrong way then the cause is a bit easier to come up with.

I've been with a number of companies that did lockouts when an employee gave notice. One company it became the joke that if a potential employer asked how much notice you needed to give to reply 5 minutes, because as soon as you gave notice you were essentialy terminated.

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