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Would you do the same? 3

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mudskipper

Technical User
May 29, 2002
600
US
Okay, I have thought about this one until my head hurt. It almost goes along the lines of some other recent posts, but with a twist. I am VERY curious to see how others would react on this one....forgive me if this becomes rather longwinded!

At the PC repair shop that I worked at for some time, we had a customer come in for repair. He signed the work order, and then he left. We took the system in back, and while working on it, the technician saw something that he shouldn't have.

Now, let me interrupt myself here--it really WAS an accident. The customer had that *DAMN* single click setting turned on. When the tech went to click on a file (in list view), he simply missed it and clicked the jpg.

What came up was child pornography. Now......

What do you do? Do you notify the authorities and sacrifice potential business if the word got out that we were *alledgedly* poking around private files? Do you turn a blind eye? Your answer might have to be thought about a bit more if you consider some of the recent court procedings (in the US) that basically argue that it is not illegal to have this crap if it is "generated" material, and not an actual photo.... Do you dole out some good ol' vigilante justice (mwah hah hah hah!!!!)?

In case you are wondering, we did call the authorities (anonymously) and gave them a general rundown. They told us that there was really nothing that they could do in this case (although they would not say why). They said that it was better to leave it alone. So the guy goes on his way. I always wondered if I should have pressed the issue, but....

Incidentally, after this episode, we were sure to include a statement on the work order that we required the customer to sign. It was something to the effect of "although no documents will be intentionally viewed, it is possible that any data (including documents, pictures, and email) on this computer may be seen by our technicians during the normal course of repairing this PC".

So what do you think? Would you report the guy? If so, do you think that he could have been prosocuted anyway? If you wouldn't squeal on the guy, then why not--just because of the potential for lost business? Even better--is it bad that we did call the authorities on that guy, but not on the guy that had the 'stealing cable' website listed in favorites (I know, I know, quite different--but still makes for a good argument ;-) )?

ps I still think that the vigilane justice this is pretty good! Mudskipper
___________________________________________________________________________________

Groucho said it best- "A four year-old child could understand this! Quick! Run out and find me a four year-old child: I can't make heads nor tails out of this!"
 
Yeah I would have, either as you did or straight up. I'd have to sleep at night. And the disclaimer is a good idea either way you look at it.
"Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!"

-Adm. James Farragut

Stuart
 
I think you handled it well mudskipper. The anonymous phone call was a compromise between sleeping at night and still having a job the next morning! The updated disclaimer is the ultimate solution.
~cdogg

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
- A. Einstein
 
Yes, absolutely you did the right thing. When you come across this kind of thing, you are morally, if not legally, right to report it.

Incidently, I believe (in the UK), it a photo processing plant comes across "objectionable" pictures, they are actaully required to report it. And that is for ALL types of naughties, not just ones involving minors. So wouldn't something similar apply to PC repair?

P.S. its how they caught Gary Glitter, and no doubt countless others... if you stop some nutter mucking up one kid's life, its worth more than a few sleepless nights
 
Since you provided no details about the picture (and I REALLY DON'T want any)

First think I'd consider is whether this is hardcore, or just a cute picture of the guy's kid being cute. Hey, my parents have pictures of me sitting naked in a pond when I was a kid, should I charge them? (don't answer that...) However if this was obviosly there for the person's sexual pleasure and/or he had a folder full of the stuff I wouldn't hesitate to report it.

I just hope I never get thrown into that kind of situation, and I think I'm going to update my documents tonight, just to be safe.

One thing I've found, when working on another persons comuter, you should be prepared for anything. I did a housecall a while ago and the person (who has a young son and daughter) had a wallpaper that was pretty hardcore. While I was working I was careful to have at least one window maximized at all times. I've also seen some machines that had vid clips open at startup that were enough to make me want to gouge out my eyes.
 
Yeah, you are all right. I had to do SOMETHING, but I wish that the police would have bucked up and nailed the guy!!

As to your comments, garwain, it was pretty bad...and yeah, sometimes I would like to sue my parents too LOL !!

I don't know what it is with people, either! Many, many times we had somebody bring their PC into the computer shop with some objectionable wallpaper on the screen. The horrible thing is that we ALWAYS started the computer out front before bringing it in for service (to make sure it worked--too many people tried to pull stupid stunts like "it had a hard drive when it came in here..."). So we had many an occasion to go diving for the monitor before the customers (kids included) could see it! Drove me nuts, especially as many of them were repeat customers and KNEW that it would power up in front of others! Are people really that dumb? Don't answer that, I know, I know....

At any rate, it is nice to hear that others would do the same thing. We really batted that one around for a while before calling on the guy. The biggest opponent, understandably, was the owner of the store. He was worried about the reputation of the store possibly going down the toilet if people thought that we were intentionally poking around. He eventually relented, but after the call, he was very clear that the issue was over. Grrrrrrrrrr. I really don't think that people realize how much a technician sees on thier PC in the normal course of fixing it!! Mudskipper
___________________________________________________________________________________

Groucho said it best- "A four year-old child could understand this! Quick! Run out and find me a four year-old child: I can't make heads nor tails out of this!"
 
mudskipper,

You definately did the right thing. And your boss must be a jackass with no children of his own.

The only thing I would have done differently is to not call local law enforcement anonymously. I would have called my local FBI field office, given my name, and asked to speak to that office's Crimes Against Children program coordinators (
Something that might apply to your situation is this ruling ( from the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals from 2001.

______________________________________________________________________
TANSTAAFL!
 
I too agree that you did the right thing. In my mind, there is a distinct difference between the porn discussed in the previous thread, which we (as least I) assumed was between adults and with adults, and this case involves children.

When children become involved, then the line has been crossed and action must be taken. Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
 
Hi, mudskipper, I actualy applaud you (and your company) for doing the right thing (and if anyone wonders what that is its reporting the incident)...
Most people, or businesses, wouldn't have done that for fear that a lenghty legal fight might put their business in the spotlight which might tarnish the business' reputation...
Here in the USA (not sure where you are at), the defedent's lawyer might say that the 'pictures' were found illegaly, therefore, the case might get thrown out of court (I think that is why the authorties said they can't do anything)...that is called 'illegal search and seazure' and its inadmissable in courts...
But if you have your clients sign that release form, and then you find something like that again, there is a legal chance, and then the authorities can take action...
But in any case, even if this guy, got off...I applaud you...:) I have not failed; I have merely found 100,000 different ways of not succeding...
 
Yeah, I wondered if that would be the catching point for a defense...his belief that his personal files were expected to be private. Also, we have no idea if he is the only user on the computer--in all honosty, we don't really know if it was his.

BTW, sleipnir214--great link. It looks like you are correct. Rather than a call to the police, a call to the FBI would have been more appropriate. I am very impressed, as the circumstances are very similar to what happened here. In fact, I am emailing that link to the tech that worked on the system.... Thanks for that info! Oh yeah, boss was kind of a jackass, but unfortunately, that is not a crime yet! ;-)

For anybody who has been in a similar situation, or can reasonbly believe that they could be thrust into it, I highly recommend browsing through that link!

Mudskipper
___________________________________________________________________________________

Groucho said it best- "A four year-old child could understand this! Quick! Run out and find me a four year-old child: I can't make heads nor tails out of this!"
 
GUJUmOdel,

Read that link I posted earlier in this thread. The 5th Circuit Court of Appeals opined that if a computer technician sees something on a computer during the normal course of working on it, he is not acting as an agent of the government. So the 4th amendment does not apply. ______________________________________________________________________
TANSTAAFL!
 
Hi,

I also think you did the right thing and handled it very well.
I DEFINITLY would have reported the guy and perhaps even "leaked" it to a journalist! I probably would have made copies of the files too just for evidence!
Maybe thats wrong but I wouldn't care!
'Normal' pron is one thing, but child porn?
Castrate the *****!

Anyone with small kids? it could be your kid in the picture!


É

:: ::
 
Since everyone's posted their opinion, i feel that i should contribute...

I also think you did the right thing, and that the police should have taken the matter further. I don't know if anyone out there is from Britain but similar incident happened there a while back...

What happened was this: an old rock star brought his computer back to the shop for repair and the staff found images of child pornography on it. He was subsequently arrested, tried, convicted, jailed and freed before leaving the country in shame. It's a true story too. just check this link out:


in that case, the repair shop was part of a large multinational which probably has strict policy on such matters.
 
SaltyDuke

I am from the UK and read an article about 2 days ago saying that another guy was caught the same way by the same team of repair workers.

This guy however, was married to a childminder and when they found the images there was an application form right next to them for a mother to send her child to the childminder.

Unbelievably, the childminder is sticking by her husband, even though he addmitted it.

All I can say is that if I saw something like this, I would most likely attack the guy when he came back in to the shop, whether poeple consider that wrong or not is up to them, I am just saying what I would do. I have a small child of my own and in all honesty, would kill anyone that even attmpted anything like that on her.

Hope this helps Wullie

sales@freshlookdesign.co.uk

The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The leader adjusts the sails. - John Maxwell
 
Thanks a bunch for all of these reports! I am in the US, but it is still good to know that others are in the same postition. It is really nice to know that they are able to do something without much fear of getting themselves into trouble!

Now, in hindsight, I wish that we had done something more.... I did, however, email sleipnir214's link to the guys that still work at the shop (his link was specific to the US). They are of the same mind...they won't actively look for anything on his PC, but if it is seen again, then they will report it to the FBI. This gives me hope, as the guy is a semi-regular at the shop.

they won't actively look for anything on his PC--in the context of this whole thread, that could be an interesting debate in the 'ethics' forum itself ;-) Mudskipper
___________________________________________________________________________________

Groucho said it best- "A four year-old child could understand this! Quick! Run out and find me a four year-old child: I can't make heads nor tails out of this!"
 
Hi mate,

The repair company that we mentioned actually stated that part of their service involves them pulling up some images from the users computer.

This was not a mistake that they found them, they deliberatly looked at those images and I don't know how they covered themselves, but the court did not see a problem with that.

Hope this helps Wullie

sales@freshlookdesign.co.uk

The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The leader adjusts the sails. - John Maxwell
 
I once (20+ years ago) worked at a photo lab where we had a rare occasion of child pornography. In Denmark, where I live, pornography using adult models is legal, child pornography of course isn't. We didn't report it and I still feel bad about that.
My point is that you did the right thing, I didn't and it haunts me.

KlausDK
 
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