Which System would you choose

[todd1019]

If you were an IT services company looking to partner with a company to install their key systems and/or IP based phone systems which brand would you choose. Looking for something our techs will find to be a good product to install and support.

All of our installs will be small to medium size offices for the next two years.

 

[jneiberger]

For small- to medium-sized offices I would look at Mitel, or maybe even ShoreTel. Heck, even Cisco would be a good option is many cases. You can't beat their support. Avaya might be a good choice but they're expensive. Their PBXs look to be extremely easy to configure, though.

I'd avoid Nortel like the plague.

 

[paterson]

If you are looking for a phone system that is IP based, I don't think you need to look further than Mitel. Some models have a WAN port and a built in 16 port POE layer 2 switch that can also function as your LAN for DATA. They will support VLANs too. IF you have any small remote offices, you could also support them off one centralized system and by-pass the need for multiple systems. I would only attempt that for SMALL offices. The Mitel will also do IP trunking to other Mitel systems for the Medium sized business. The Mitel IP systems also have a good reputation for analog and digital sets.

Avaya is a good choice too if you can find a good dealer to support you.

 

[johnpoole]

voip=cisco
tdm=nortel
hotel=mitel

with that line you would cover any possible customer need. i am certfied on 13 switches and a full time nortel large system tech. even the smaller line size nortel bcm is a big mover

john poole
bellsouth business
columbia,sc

 

[jneiberger]

johnpoole, have you ever worked with any Mitel gear, especially the 3300 line? If so, do you have any reservations about using that in a large network?

As you know by now, there is a two-horse race between Mitel and Cisco to become our VoIP provider. I personally feel Cisco is in the lead but the Mitel stuff has some attractive features.

However, they're missing some features that we require: Call Park (without an attendant), Call Pickup (Other Group), voice mail password policy enforcement, user-changeable Hot Desking PINs.

Still, they did get the CompUSA deal and that's over 230 PBXs that are networked together. If it wasn't able to scale, I would imagine that they would have run into problems by now.

 

[johnpoole]

i installed mitel for several years, but pre-voip. if mitel could do my total network solution i would go that way. we sell cisco, gold partner or something. you can not beet their routers or tech support. i love the ccm but am not to hot on their voice mail. my opinion, mitel is trying to learn data, cisco is trying to learn voice. nortel hasn't got a track on voip yet, yes, you can but it, no you can't find anyone to make it work (almost anyone) imo, it's all scaleable, i could take two dozen ccm's and put 50k stations on them. without tdm i wouldn't want to pay for the bandwidth.. good news bandwidth is droping in price.. the reason tdm is still selling at all is dependability, 90 percent of the usa picks up a home phone and heres nortel dialtone. i would love to switch to solid voip at my site, 8000 station hospital, but when some prewire tech unplugs a switch in 3 west and kills all the phones in the or's. i'll be looking for work, today we expect servers to need a reboot, system x will be off line from 1 to 1:30, daily email. try sending one saying the voice server needs a reboot... if i was making the decesion, voip only option on the table.. solid cisco network, cisco call managers, redundant.. (dell blade servers) i can turn off my ccm, (behind a nortel 81c) and the cisco wireless users (300) never knew it happened. everything on the cisco side it totally redundant, peer to peer networking is unreal, almost like free bandwidth. running dual pri's to dual ccm's, but cisco to cisco if pure voice over, cisco to network uses the pri tdm, with clid and name display.. clean.. i helped with the design, and did the software on the nortel side, the cisco side was handled by a ccnp in about 4 hours

john poole
bellsouth business
columbia,sc

 

[johnpoole]

btw, when i'm not at work i tend to have a lot longer replies.

john poole
bellsouth business
columbia,sc

 

[jneiberger]

I thought that was a little verbose for you. LOL

You mentioned a hospital. There's a fairly new hospital in the Denver area that is now entirely Cisco VoIP. They also use a lot of wireless within the hospital. It's pretty neat from what I've seen. Our Cisco account rep has offered to set up a walkthrough for us and I might take her up on it.

 

[jneiberger]

Also, what don't you like about the Cisco VM product? The screenshots I've seen of it look rather spartan. I've heard from a couple of people that Unity VM isn't the greatest. Do you have any specific ideas to improve it? I enjoy beating up sales reps over stuff like this so I'd love to ask them about Unity's shortcomings.

 

[todd1019]

Thanks for the feedback. I have experience with Nortel, Mitel, Tadiran, Avaya, Fujitsu, and NEC. I really loved working on the old Mitel we had at the company I worked for. I was not a fan of the Nortel from the tech interface side of it but the functionality of the Nortel is pretty impressive.

What we need to get into is a system that our network guys can easily pickup on to install and support and that is very cost effective for our customers.

 

[johnpoole]

network guys can easily pickup

that line would suggest cisco, network guys don't seem to merge into the tdm side of nortel very smoothly. i've ofen thought that the move from voice to data was natural. the move from data to voice never seems very smooth. i've never met a network tech that made the move and was comfortable with voice tdm

john poole
bellsouth business
columbia,sc

 

[jneiberger]

I'm not a voice tech yet but I'm getting pretty comfortable with all this voice stuff. Quite thankfully, I don't need to know the Nortel stuff that our company currently uses. However, I will have to learn whichever product we choose if we move to VoIP.

 

[johnpoole]

nortel's not any harder then any other tdm, most data people i know perfer to learn new cisco equipt, nortel is just another lang and no ? help.. plus books that don't answer questions and tech support that don't answer questions.. other then that there as good as cisco

john poole
bellsouth business
columbia,sc

 

[jsaxe]

Hey, I'm biased... I used to work for Mitel, I recommend it with no reservations.

3300 is the natural upgrade from the good old SX-2000 which was my baby, and for features and flexibility, it just can't be beat.

The Java-based front end is nifty (Although I miss the old UNIX OPSMan...) and menu driven configuration forms shouldn't tax IT types too much.

(caveat: even IP systems require telecommunications knowledge - just one example, Automatic Route Selection is something I've seen drive strong men to tears of rage and frustration).

I suggest you go to

http://www.wedophones.com

and download some manuals for different systems. They won't be the most up-to-date, but you'll get an idea of what you're in for. While you're there, get a General Information Guide for the Mitel product - what a sales tool! I used to call it PBX porn.

jsaxe


"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson (R.I.P. Doc)

 

[johnpoole]

every tech loves the switch he know and hates the ones he can't play with... the sales info is very rarely worth the ink on the paper.. alomst all large switches offer a gui interace. bad thing about that, learn the os instead of the switch and the company may drop that software and you're stuck learning another os.. i hated windows 1.0, dos worked just fine, by the time i installed 3.1, and learned it, 95 was coming out.. you know the rest of the story... i recogmend to anyone, learn command line, leave the gui, java driven interface to the rookies. 30 plus years and i still command line 12 switches, but when they break, i can also fix them.. if your doing gui and that doesn;t boot clean, your switch can stay down until a tech shows up..not a good way to work.. unlike nt, rebooting usually takes a bad problem and makes it worse... again just my 2

john poole
bellsouth business
columbia,sc

 

[srmega41]

I can only echo what johnpoole said, and add that you need to have a vendor and a partner that can let you get as involved as YOU want. Nortel is a great TDM PBX, but the technical support is terrible, and they are very proud of their knowledge base. Try asking a difficult, technical support question to any Nortel sales person and they will point you directly at the distributor, not internal technical support. That access is restricted to vendors only. No way to check on issues without a vendor relationship, and issues and bugs are a well-kept secret.

Cisco does a great job of publishing everything (almost to a fault), but you can get answers to difficult questions without needing a maintenance contract.

Many technicians I have seen really dive into the VoIP realm know their stuff, and things like support from the vendor when the local techs are over their head is a big value.

I hate being forced to ask my distributor a question I know they cannot answer, just to go through the motions. Look at how each vendor supports the upper level techs that are also customers. Look for ways to get really difficult questions answered by the people who know the answer, not by jumping through several hoops in order to follow the "appropriate channels," otherwise known as: Leave the vendor alone. We are too smart to talk to the likes of you.

I will stop ranting now.

Scott M.

 

[johnpoole]

might have been a rant scott, but as usual you nailed it. any system is only as good as the worst tech you have to deal with. for decades i have worked with techs whos 1st response was, "the system can't do that" if that didn't work they tried stalling until someone else was on site. check your local support, not the sales or management force, actual techs, and other customers... support will onlt improve when it effects the bottom line

john poole
bellsouth business
columbia,sc