Which phone system do you own? Pros & Cons 6

[mrdon515]

We are looking for a new phone system. We have 15 locations and approx 250 users. I have read a number of threads about what people recommend. So far I am planning on looking at these 4 solutions: Avaya, Cisco, ShoreTel, Digium. I know every system has it's good and bad.

What system do you have and what are the Pros & Cons for it? (Ease of use, Cost, Disaster Recovery, Features, Apps, Expansion, Support, Reporting, etc.)

Thanks,
Brandon

 

[RLSbutton]

I own three systems in my lab and I will talk about each of them. Be warned, the UCx is my favorite.

Avaya IP Office 500 V2 RLS 8.1:

Pros:
-Can use certain Nortel telephones and Avaya Based Telephones are sleek and full of features.
-Chock full of features such as call park, paging, intercom, CLID, etc.
-Can be expanded easily
-Avaya Support is very easy to find.
-Very reliable and engineered on years of Lucent/Avaya legacy.
-A wide array of legacy and new IP Phones are supported.
-SIP trunking is very easy to set up.
-Call voice quality is extremely clear.
-CLID information comes across all phone displays clearly and accurately.
-Internal Telephone paging is easy to setup.
-The online Manager program is fairly easy to use to setup short codes and extensions.
-Deskphone based programming is available.

Cons:
-Nortel IP Phones only work in SIP mode, not Unistim. Nortel 1100/1200 SIP phones sound extremely distorted voice quality wise.
-Not all Nortel Feature Codes function exactly as they did on the Norstar/BCM.
-Base model is inexpensive, but once you start adding key codes, a fully fledged system can get expensive when compared to Digium/E-MetroTel or even a BCM.
-Features are sometimes complicated to program. For example Call Park has to show park appearances on each phone instead of being able to just assign a general code such as 101 to be dialed at any phone.
-Too many key codes and an expensive licensing system.
-No built in Paging output, has to be "jimmy rigged" with an analog CO port.
-Having to restart the system to make a change go into effect, every time a move or change is made.


Nortel BCM 50 RLS6.0: (Not manufactured anymore but since it's in my lab, I'll list some features about it)

Pros:
-Full of legacy Nortel Norstar features
-T-Series Digital telephones are still manufactured by Avaya
-Many companies rebuilt and refurbish the Hardware and Software and come with long term service contracts.
-All parts are available on the Grey Market
-Used phones are easily available on Ebay.
-Extremely simple installation.
-An external Paging output is built in.
-Music on Hold has many options such as an audio input and an internal music player using .wav files.
-Deskphone based programming is available.

Cons:
-Product is technically discontinued
-Limited Caller ID Information on Phone Displays
-No Internal Hold Music
-Nortel Unistim BCM Software IP Phones are dumbed down version of CS1000 telephones
-No interchangeable functionality of Nortel Meridian 1 Telephones or CS1000 telephones.
-Hard Drive based with a fan
-No SIP phone capability
-Javascript and PC Based dependent for Element Manager programming.

E-MetroTel UCx50 RLS 4.5

Pros:
-Developed by Nortel Norstar/BCM/CS1000 engineers who are former Nortel employees.
-Norstar/BCM Feature Codes still work the way they did on the Nortel platform.
-Interchangeable functionality between all Nortel telephones released after 1990 including M2000, M3900, M7000, T7000, 1200/1100E/2000 Unistim IP sets.
-Support of most SIP telephones by manufacturers such as Cisco, Aastra, Polycom, Grandstream, and even Nortel SIP phones.
-Interchangeable license structure. For example: if you currently have a digital telephone and you want to upgrade it to an IP set, you do not have to purchase a new IP license. One license covers every type of telephone.
-Simple license/keycode structure. One extension/dn license covers all features on the system such as voice mail, find me/follow me, etc.
-The ability to run the system without any Nortel telephones as a pure SIP PBX.
-Familiar Nortel "Joan Kenley/Meridian Mary" voice prompts.
-24-7 no wait technical support
-Feature key or CS1000 softkey choice for Unistim IP Telephones.
-A quiet server model that can be expanded as needed.
-Server Virtualization is easy to set up.
-Web RTC/Next generation IP telephone clients availability.
-Sold by established Nortel base around the world.
-Features are easy to program via a web based GUI interface that can be used on a Mac or PC, no annoying Java script updates to deal with.
-The system doesn't need to be restarted every time a new feature or change to the system parameters is made.
-Multiple Music on Hold options such as an input, streaming or pre recorded.
-Most SIP trunking providers are already auto populated, so you just fill in the parameters and you are ready to go.
-PRI/BRI/SIP/Analog and GSM trunking are all compatible on the system.
-Call Waiting can be announced with a familiar Nortel M1 Buzz, or Norstar ringing or silence.
-Call Ringing Cadences can be changed to match either a Norstar ringing pattern or a CS1000 ringing patter.
-Call Buzz tone pitches can be adjusted.
-Paging can initiate silently or with a default Nortel page tone. An alternative page tone of your choice can be uploaded into the system.
-Held Line Notification works just like on the Norstar telephones.
-Low cost when compared to other systems out there today. An entry level system with telephones will cost less than $1600 with all features built in, including voicemail.

Cons:
-Feature 86 for background music no longer functions, but there are other ways to make it work gain.
-No external paging output, but a SNOM PA1 works perfectly with the system.
-CLID Information reads on one line on the M2000/M3900 sets instead of the Nortel 2 line style.

HINT: I obviously like the UCx product as it's the main system I use in my lab. All three systems are SIP trunked together and work together interchangeably.

If I have one good word for the UCx, its "interchangeability!"












Joseph Sus Jr. Nortel Emetrotel Consultant

http://www.joetheucxguy.com

 

[mforrence]

Phone system is only as good as the supporting vendor - that's the real key to success.

 

[kwbMitel]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

All other factors are secondary

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

 

[holdmusic34]

Exactly right. Find someone who has made the investment to support it and is going to be able to support it in the future.
This may be the little guy, just because your account is a big account for him.
If he is little, but professional and honest, I would go with him over a big crowd. You'll find that when the big company have a problem with you, they can hide in the crowd of their colleagues.
Where's the little guy going to hide when you call? He needs you.

You may find that he'll need to invoice your system up front, may not be able to assist with finance and may charge the annual maintenance fee separately, but you'll keep him and two guys afloat for another year.




Now experiencing escalation fatigue.

 

[RLSbutton]

Oh by the way, the UCx can be set up as a virtual server at many locations.

Joseph Sus Jr. Nortel Emetrotel Consultant

http://www.joetheucxguy.com

 

[trvlr1]

Although I fought against it for a long time, the Cisco we use has been a very good investment for us. It is expensive to start out with, but cost per user go down the more you add, so if you have expansion in mind, this may be a good option. As with all IP systems no matter which manufacturer it comes from, having a solid network is the key to getting good service at the phone. Also, as noted before, having a good vendor is very important, especially if you have no specific training on the system.

 

[mikeyb123]

We're running ShoreTel - 4 sites, 800 odd users and a contact centre of around 150

I have to say from a "just works" point of view it does just what it says on the tin, but we run into issues around what I would call standard features - more than 16 in a pickup group/hunt group

Also, from a support point of view it's infuriating to have to leave servers exposed from a ms patch point of view as Shoretel won't support anything if you are past their release date - for example we are on a release that is now maybe a year old but can't get a decent level of support from them to look at anything if we apply ms patches that have come along since the GA date.

licensing is fairly cheap, they don't tend to do patches to fix stuff it all gets rolled up into the next release - so potential fo a bit of pain till the next GA comes along.

Supplier is key as they only deal with resellers unless you cough up major cash.. SIP trunking support can be problematic as if the SIP supplier isn't approved they will walk away and finger point.



It's not getting any smarter out there. You have to come to terms with stupidity, and make it work for you.

 

[sbcsu]

OpenScape 4000 from Unify (Siemens)

 

[intrigrant]

RLSbutton is clearly a Nortel diehard.
A IP Office is best to use with genuine Avaya phones and trow away the Nortel crap as there are no developments on those phones and as said before, features are very limited and audio quality is below acceptable.

In my opinion ANY system is good if it fits your needs, is affordable and maintainable.

I prefer Avaya IP Office but I will not especially advise you to go for that system only, get informed with real time demo's but define your needs first.
Only then you get the best fit, here you get advise of engineers who are working on a single brand or sometimes even two while there is a wide range of systems to choose from.

 

[mrdon515]

Sales reps tend to tell you what you want to hear and answer all of your questions with "Yes, our system does that", but after you purchase it turns out that it's not exactly what they said or what you expected. That's why I was asking for pro's and cons for system people currently own. We have an old Avaya PBX that has been rock solid and did what we wanted it to. The grey market offered a lot of components for cheap. The drawbacks have been that support and licensing were extremely expensive.

 

[parasush]

It's good you want to upgrade your phone system. Last year I switched to VoIP and it's helping me lot in reducing my business expenses. Among all the various communication system, VoIP Phone system is the most flexible and affordable option. Now a days, you can have it hosted via VoIP provider. I will recommend you choose The Real PBX, the leading provider of VoIP technology and cloud communications ideal for all your business communications.

 

[engenius]

Great posts guys

Im with RLSbutton - UCX is rock solid and continues to grow and improve as technology changes. I have been installing UCX for over 3 years, and will continue to do so. Great product, & graet support.

Owner
Sideline Telephone Service Inc.
Canadian - Reseller

 

[Ragnorak]

One of the most important things to keep in mind is the implementation. Every product has stronger and weaker points, but a well implemented weaker product will almost always serve you better than a poorly implemented stronger product. With 15 sites and 250 users you are probably not going to have a simple and straight forward implementation.

The IP Office is an excellent product. It can be expensive compared to some others, but with a knowledgeable installer it can do most anything you want.

I generally recommend that people avoid Cisco unless the same company installing it also handles their IT. Some customers want their Cisco system thrown in the dumpster and others will give up their first born rather than lose their Cisco system. It is one of the starkest love/hate reactions I've seen from a phone system. The difference always seems to be the implementation and you can't get a good Cisco implementation without integrating it with your network.

Not familiar enough with Shoretel, I haven't looked at it in ten years. Digium or any flavor of Asterisk based system is probably going to cost less than others. The open source nature means there are a great many low cost addon products to choose from and many of them are quite remarkable. That same open source nature means that they might not play well in the sandbox together and that again comes back to who is implementing it.

 

[ECartman]

Have a look at 3CX

Been installing them for 3 years. Was mainly Nortel (then into Avaya) before that.

Nice product, all the features you would expect from the bigger vendors and usually at a fraction of the cost.

 

[phoneguy610]

Can one of you guys explain the benefit of purchasing a 3cx or any pure IP solution for that matter versus a hosted solution?

Its the same thing but you dont have to pay for support or the server.

It served a good bridge between digital prem and hosted but thats about it

The only benefit i see is if he has nortel phones and wants to reuse, but the cost of the server and support is likely going to be somewhere in the range of what handsets would cost.

 

[phoneguy610]

especially multi location as he is now looking at purchasing 15 servers, a cost that would be $0 with a hosted solution

 

[IPGuru]

Eggs, Basket

Any problem on the connection to the hosted platform & everything is down

There was a lot of that in the uk this week after an issue @ telecity.



Do things on the cheap & it will cost you dear

 

[phoneguy610]

not true what so ever IPguru

first of all phones are sip and compatible with any solution. So if you hate the vendor its easy as possible to switch

And hosted platform everything is still up. If you lose power at your office you have nothing, with a hosted solution their clients will get an automated attendant a voicemail or cell phone. If you lose telco to your premise system you can still dial by extension? Is that it? Certain firewalls actually have the capability to allow hosted phones to still dial each other if internet was down as well.

You have so much more redundancy with a hosted solution its not even comparable.

No idea who that hosted provider is but just because one had an outage doesnt mean they all do. Most hosted providers (ourselves included) have a geo redundant high avaiability setup with multiple carriers. We have had 100% uptime on our system and have a 5 9s uptime guarantee. Is that something a premise system can do?

 

[phoneguy610]

and the pure ip solution has sip trunks no? So that has even more points of failure