What Palm-like PDA would you recommend?

[jcuenca]

Hi,

I'm thinking of buying a new PDA. I've been a happy Psion user for quite a long time, but since I enjoyed the Clie NR70V (you know, digital camera, MP3... P-) ) in a Sony Style Store, I can't think of anything more useful and delightful than a Palm/Handspring/Clie. The problem is, what's the best quality/price solution?

Thnx

 

[JustKIDn]

That's a hard question. "One mans trash is another mans treasure".

It sounds like you like the Sony Clie. Maybe that's right for you!

For me, I like the Handspring Visor Deluxe. although they don't make them anymore, it's still a great palm because it has enough memory and there are so many add-ons you can get for it. Like the eyemodule and the visorphone. The downside to most handsprings is, you cant upgrade the OS. You can still buy refurbs for about $99.00

Palms are nice too. Especially since they finally added support for add-ons like memory modules.

There really are a lot of things to consider;
Size, does it fit in my...?
Color, do you need a color screen?
OS, which Operating System?
Upgradability, (is that a word?)
Programs, some newer programs won't work on an older OS.
Add-ons, the problem with any palm type is the add-ons. Once you start to accessorize your palm it's hard to change to another one because then you have to go out and buy them all that stuff again.

I think the answer is really up to you. But I hope I gave you something to think about.
tgus

____________________________________________________
A father's calling is eternal, and its importance transcends time.

 

[Karl Blessing]

If you want, you could look into the sharp zarus , its a Linux powered PDA using the QTopia desktop enviroment. And recently on a website ( if I remeber it ) , is a fully functional PalmOS emulator provided you have a ROM image from an existing palmOS device. Would be useful if you want a more powerful PDA , but still have the ability to work with applications from an older PDA you have. Karl Blessing aka kb244{fastHACK}

 

[jcuenca]

tgus is right, the choice should be mine in the end.

Questions are suggestive:

Size -> important, but I think almost every Palm-like is little enough for my pockets
Color -> well, I don't need it but it would be nice
OS -> any if can run enough programs
Upgradability -> at first glance, no need...
Programs -> a bit of everything
Add-ons -> that's a good point. I have to think it deeper.

When I make my mind I'll try to tell my choice

Thanks

 

[Karl Blessing]

Size -> Tosiba and iPaq are some of the thinnest of PocketPC , Visor edge and a sony I dont know which model are some of the thinest for PalmOS

Color -> Nearly every pocketPc in production has color. Sony is the best to go with for color on PalmOS devices

OS -> PocketPC can multi-task programs, PalmOS can only run one program at a time, its better a simple operations but not as powerful as PocketPC ( debatible )

Upgradibility -> PocketPC is upgradiable whenever microsoft releases an update. PalmOS is more of a hassle, unless you buy a Palm brand PDA you may not be able to get the latest OS due to licence issues. Many PalmOS users aside from sony and some select few complain about not having OS 4.* yet because the device manufactuer is still trying to get a liscence for it. Hardware-wise , PocketPC devices tend to have a wider array of hardware updates.

Programs -> PocketPC seems to have alot of good programs. Although its true that PalmOS has thousands of programs out there I have found in my own opinion that half of those thousands are useless, and the other half is basically a clone off each other. I have also found average commercial PalmOS applications cost more than a PocketPC alternative, my guess is because its a tad more difficult and more expensive to develop for the PalmOS platform.

Add-ons : depending on the device you get, for example iPaq have a large degree of Sleeves. And with a CF or PC Card sleeve you can stick just about anything into the slots. Palm is a little more limited to hardware addons from what I noticed. Karl Blessing aka kb244{fastHACK}

 

[Birbone]

I just bought the Palm powered KYOCERA smartphone. It's a great option if you would like to consolidate your pager/cell phone/PDA into one. With the new color screen model coming out later this year, you can get the current B&W model for $99 with a verizon account. Sprint also has some great deals on it but they won't give out their password (in other words you have to take your phone to them to get some options unlocked, you can find out more details on this at

http://www.smartphonesource.com).

Hope this helps.
-Bobby
bwgunn@icqmail.com

 

[Karl Blessing]

Problem with smart phones is they seem to lack in areas, its kind of like the saying, "Jack of all trades, master of none" Karl Blessing aka kb244{fastHACK}

 

[JustKIDn]

Karl,

> "Jack of all trades, master of none"

Sounds like you're describing a Micro$oft product. With the exception of "bloatware".

They are definately masters of bloatware.

Proof?
How much memory do you have on your windose handheld?
I've only got 8MB on my Visor, I have tons of programs installed to do everything I want to do. And I still have at about half of my memory in reserve.

The only thing wrong with those all-in-one's is their size. They have a smaller size than the standard palm. But with the color model, they are crisp and easy to see.

tgus

____________________________
Families can be together forever...

 

[Karl Blessing]

hrm, I dont think you quite understand the reason so much memory is on them, Gives them more capabilities. for example, I am only using 4megs of rams for storing programs, and I do have a bunch. You can adjust the allocation of the rams, between how much to reserve for storage and how much to reserve for running programs ( actual rams behavior as in PC ) , This also allows you to multi-task between several applications at once. Also using memory cards, such as a 64Meg SD card, I can install install applications to a storage card, run from there etc. On a PalmOS I had to buy a 40$ program to run applications off storage cards, and even then they had to be read-only databases as well and was limited to a number of programs/databases.

The memory cards are treated as a folder on the PocketPC system such as /Storage Card/

Despite having more speed, more memory, doesnt mean that they had to have that much just to match the equivilance of Palm, but because it excels past the capabilities of Palm. If 8Megs and simple programs are all you need, then thats just fine, but with the PocketPC I can run several applications that palm cannot, I can also emulate GameBoy, Gameboy Color, Nintendo, Super Nintendo, Sega Master system, Sega Gamegear, etc, and also play a game very close to PC quality called Argentum ( similar to star craft ), to date , the only good emulator I found on PalmOS was Liberty a Commercial Gaameboy emulator with very poor support for sound, and required least a 33mhtz Dragonball processor to play least decently.

I too used to think that they needed all that speed and memory cuz it was so bloated, but I learned later on that was not the case. Karl Blessing aka kb244{fastHACK}

 

[JustKIDn]

I too can multitask. I can use a program eg. a database like ThinkDB, and then press the datebook button, look at my calendar, do other things if I want and then go back to ThinkDB and pick-up right where I left off. This I believe is true for all my other programs. As far as I know, I really haven't tested this because everything seems to work just like I want it to. If programs were always closing and I'd have to reopen them to get to the spot I was at last, it would bother me a lot.

While it's true that some of the programs on my Visor are 'simple' programs, I have quite a few complex programs as well. A lot of them are simple because they don't require the extra bloatware that windose requires. Some of the more complex programs I have are; Maps, DB's like ThinkDB (one of the best DB's for handhelds), Spreadsheet, viewers, etc... I've also had things like movie players but I took it off, because I found that I just didn't have a need for it.

I can get memory cards for mine also. But I don't need it.
And as far as games go, I have a few. If I wanted to play Nintendo or something I would go buy one. I don't have a great need for games. They help kill some time when sitting in line waiting for a haircut or something.

In the end, I can do about anything you can do. And you can do almost anything I can do.

This post is really about helping people like jcuenca find the best system for their needs. Not about forcing your one-sided opinions down their throats. This Is why I spoke up. I've been watching some of your posts, and it seems you're on a mission to convert everyone to the pocket PC.

As you can see by my first response to this post by jcuenca, I would like to leave it up to the person to make up their own mind by helping them to make an informed decision. And if that decision is a pocket PC, then great! But let it be because we helped them to know what's available and not what we want.



tgus

____________________________
Families can be together forever...

 

[Karl Blessing]

sounds to me like you are also forcing a one-side opinion down people's throat, but still , its not "bloatware" its just large for people who want the extra bells and wistles. I could load my PPC up with similar programs as you would put on a palm. Do note I own both a Handera330 , and a Compaq iPaq3835, so I pretty much know both of what I am talking about.

Forcing my opinion down someone throat would be for me to say , you must get this because Palm is utter crap. But I dont say this because for most people Palm is all a person could really need. I on the other hand, want a bunch of gadget like abilities in a portible, I want to use my portible, as an mp3 player in the background while mapping locations, or playing games, or browsing the internet. I want to be able to attach PC cards, and other devices, and digital camera attachments, its just what I want.

With my handera while its a fine device, it just wasnt pushing it where I wanted to go. It will do basically everything that could be "needed" and for people who need microsoft word and excel they can just get QuickOffice for Palm as well. But when i originally said "Jack of all trades, master of none" I was refering to smartphone vs a pure PalmOS PDA. I have heard numerous testimonials, that its usally better to have just a phone, or just a palm, than to try to merge the two, mainly due to some design flaws, I am uncertain about the phone mentioned above but I have heard some design flaws with the handspring Treo.

In the end , the main reason I mentioned PocketPC is because I myself feel it is the best in the sense of hardware expandibility. He could get a sony with digital camera and mp3 playback, but in my opinion if you are going to pay 600$ might as well get a PocketPC, specifically an iPaq because of it's expandibility. Because sony PDA last I checked only use sony memory stick, a flash media that is insane on it's priceing, and lacks devices that can use that slot. I just feel that anything that can use a CF slot, or PCMCIA slot ( PC card ) has a better chance at getting a wider range of accesories.

But either way, both platforms are expensive.

here is another tip, hold onto your money and wait for devices to come out with PalmOS 5 since they did just release that recently.

PalmOS 5 is able to use the strongArm 206Mhtz processor, and use ram sizes upto 64Meg ( and perhaps beyound ) , and so forth. If you wait for this, you might be able to get the best of both worlds ( hardware expandibility and an operating system that complies with KISS [Keep it simple stupid]) Karl Blessing aka kb244{fastHACK}

 

[Karl Blessing]

Oh just some food for thought.

http://www.palmos.com/about/news/2002/062702.html

seems Motorola is already on the ball, sounds like they are making a 200Mhtz Dragonball processor that complies with PalmOS5 standard, When it will come out in devices I dont know, but the sooner the better because it can make competition very interesting. Karl Blessing aka kb244{fastHACK}

 

[jcuenca]

Hi again,

I didn't expected that my question ended in a big discussion, but I find it interesting because it got out many challenging opinions.

First, I haven't considered an hybrid choice (like Kyocera), but once mentioned, I think it would be great to have something like the Clie NR70V with a tiny antenna that allows you to make phone calls. IMHO, if they can retain the excellent current design, add just the required components for telephony, and optimize power consumption in order to be able to full work two or three days, maybe I should make no objections.

Moreover, if that perfect PDA had Palm OS 5 and Dragonball 100MHz+, geez! But I'm afraid that having so fast processors means high power consumption, and I don't know batteries with enough capacity yet.

Let's go back to reality. I agree with many of the comments said:
- Console emulation (SNES, gameboy...) is attractive (but not mandatory ). I don't know the whole Palm software catalogue, but I suspect that there are many chances for emulators other than Liberty. On the other hand, you would need good controls to play videogames; at least, a pad (4 direction) and 2 buttons. I don't know if any of the PDA we're talking about has them.
- I was wondering how Palm-likes managed external memory (CF-cards). Psion devices have a disk system close to MS-DOS: the main memory is C: , the CF is D: , the ROM is Z: ... Considering the database orientation of Palms, I guessed that external disk would be multimedia-oriented (image and video storage). It seems Karl points in this direction. That's fine, but I would prefer an unrestricted use (some programs have huge data files that would perfectly fit in the external disks).
- I thought Clie were more expansible... At first you don't need much if you begin with an integrated digital camera and MP3 player, but if I want to add a GPS I would like to be able to attach it to my PDA.
- I would prefer not getting into a discussion like "PC vs MAC", "Sega Vs Nintendo", "Spectrum vs Amstrad", "Windows vs Linux"... I think that, fortunately, we have lots of tools to choose from, so it's up to everyone to get the one that fits best its needs. I prefer the simple and effective Palm software, but at the same time I respect people who prefers to play "Doom" while browsing the web with Internet Explorer.
- Wish I could wait for Palm OS 5 and so, but I need a new PDA before two months...

Well... when I make up my mind I'll tell.

Thanks a lot.

 

[Karl Blessing]

Well depending on your budget I could sell you my Hander330 , its not snazzy and bleeding edge technology like the sony clique. But it is a farily new replaced model ( not more than a month and a half old, they replaced my old one ).

Basically, you can get the info on handera at handera.com

I liked it because you can put a CF card and an SD card in at the same time, also I purchased the Lithium Ion battery for it, which could make the device last upto 3 months depending on how you use it.

Tho I am planning on ebaying it soon. (its nice but I'm pre-occupied with my PocketPC)

and yes, PocketPC is attractive, but is a bit more than what most people need, and can be quite out of reach of many folk's budget. Karl Blessing aka kb244{fastHACK}

 

[Karl Blessing]

Oh and ya you made a good point about industry comparism, earlier today I was telling someone I didnt expect the Palm Vs PocketPC to be as agresive as 3dFx vs Nvidia, Intel vs AMD, Microsoft vs *nix. So forth. I work for envynews.com as their developer and constributing hardware reviewer. Most of us get picky, and we do desire (or "envy&quot the more expensive hardware, often we'll review something intended for budget audience but most of the time it's "Quality Gadgets", and my opinion the only PalmOS to fall into that categories are those Sony ones, and possibly the i705 from palm, but we've yet to get any review samples of those. Karl Blessing aka kb244{fastHACK}

 

[JustKIDn]

jcuenca,

Thank you for your comments.
I hope you pick the PDA that fits your needs best. There are a lot of choices now and obviously some of them are better than others. Depending on your requirements.

When you do finally choose one I hope you'll let us know. Then we can start a discussion about what is the best software for it.

tgus

____________________________
Families can be together forever...