What is the best way to force page breaks? 2

[mistercitizen]

What is the best way to force page breaks - using soft returns, or by using Tabs?

Or is there yet another way that will permit more flexibility if I decide to change my Paraagraph styles later, thus effecting the length of lines?

 

[Genimuse]

There are two "best" ways, in my opinion.

Either insert a page break character (Type=>Insert Special=>break type of your choice) or if you're using style sheets and you're trying to force a special paragraph style to a new page every time, you can change its Keep options so that it always starts on a new page.

 

[denice]

If you are simply using 2 text boxes, one on page 1 and one on page 2 and you wish to move the last few lines to the next page (or how ever many lines) you can hit your ENTER from your 10key which puts in a down arrow. This takes the remaining text and put it to the very next text thread.

Hope this helps
~D

Denice
Mac OSX, Running Classic for Quark 4.1. System G4.

 

[mistercitizen]

Sorry, I meant that to read "line breaks"! Oops!

My problem with using soft return or tabs, s that when I change the Paragraph style of my body copy, all of the forced line breaks end up moving about with the modified text.

Is there anyway to avoid this?

 

[Genimuse]

Aye, soft returns are usually bad. Can you give an example of what you're wanting to do? I'd bet there's an easier way that takes advantage of the application's power better.

 

[mistercitizen]

Usually when I have an orphan at the end of a column of text I will use soft return on the previous line, so that the final line has two words.

Any better methods?

 

[mistercitizen]

Any ideas?

 

[MarcusStringer]

Only really by playing with the tracking and chucking in a discrestionary hyphen here and there, changing the Adobe paragraph composser to single line composser. That sort of stuff.

Faster the chuck in a soft return. You can almost always tell if you haved used one or not.
eg

type type type type type type type type
type type type type type type type type
type type type type type type type type
type type
type type type type type type type type
type type

Marcus

http://www.midlandtypesetters.com.au

 

[mistercitizen]

Yeah, I thought that adjusting the tracking would be the way to go.

Are there any hard typographical rules regarding limiting your tracking adjustments or hyphen useage? (other than avoiding consectutive lines with hyphens, or breaking a word across two coloumns or pages)

I guess the only downside to that method is that adjusting the tracking on one line to eliminate one hyphen will often result in all the other lines shuffling to create more hyphenated words still!

Furthermore, I don't suppose that Indesign has some sort of global parameters that can be set to make automatic tracking adjustments, so as to eliminate orphans, hyphens etc?

Would be better then doing them manually - am I being too hopeful here?

 

[Genimuse]

Unfortunately there's not a lot of control over it. Your hyphenation settings obviously determine important things like the number of hyphenated lines in a row, etc., and the Keep options eliminate true widows and orphans (keep the first two and last two lines of every paragraph together, for example), but the Adobe Paragraph Composer tries to control super-short or super-long lines. It does a pretty good job, imo, certainly better than Quark used to, but I don't think it's tweakable at all.

 

[MarcusStringer]

As a rule, +30 to -30 track would be the limit before the para looks like crap compared to the other paras.

Quark works differently, it uses a +3 to -3 track limit. If you can't get the line back in that range then you start looking at the para before that one.
Can you you get any of them back?
You may have to go back a few pages to find one.

Worst case, if you can't find one the feather the page, i.e. reducing the leading by .5 pt on the whole page will work without it being noticeable.

Some Publishers will let you break a word over a spread page but never, ever break a word on a recto page.

You could also through in a non-breaking space in the line before the hyphen to stop any more appearing etc etc etc.

Hope this helps

Marcus

http://www.midlandtypesetters.com.au

 

[mistercitizen]

Thanks for your tips guys!

Marcus, should the tracking adjustments be applied to the whole para, or just the line with the offending hyphen?

Also, what's a "recto page"?

And what does this mean:

"You could also through in a non-breaking space in the line before the hyphen to stop any more appearing etc etc etc."

Thanks again - you have both been very helpful - stars all round!

 

[MarcusStringer]

Hi Mistercitizen,
first off, thanks for the star.
A recto page is a right hand or odd page, verso is left or even.
sorry about that it was "old school trade talk".

You really should be using track to the whole para so it doesn't look out of place. if you can't then apply it to the line.

I think (from memory) it's under insert>special character, non-breaking space.

that will keep the word (I can't remember which side of the space) from turning over to the next line.

Marcus

http://www.midlandtypesetters.com.au

 

[MarcusStringer]

Good God... my spelling is the worst (typing to fast)... sorry for all reading this...

Marcus

http://www.midlandtypesetters.com.au