Well, I'm looking at using Crystal

[TruthAndBeauty]

Well, I'm looking at using Crystal Reports for my web reporting too within my organization (1000 staff). It will be on an intranet, not and internet. I'd like some opion on my strategy.

-10 true report developers ( not users)
-The reports are targeted at the 150 managers but accessable to all.
-Most will want canned reports, drill down capability ( not OLAP), parameter driven reports, form letters and labels.
-The 150 will like to have "ad hoc" capbility where they can pick field from a list, sort them and filter the selection. I suspect 15 concurrent users.
-The same 150 would also like to have a "trim" capability where they are presented with a report and can select columns to delete, re-sort and filter for a subset of the data. These ad-hoc designs need to be saved by the user.

-I'm looking at buying the CE (enterprise), Smart Reporting tool and 10 CR.
-I plan to put CE on a highend single processor PC located between the web server and my database server.
-CE Licensing cost is based on the number of processors I use.
-Smart Reporting will be 15 concurrernt users

The scheduling and audit features are important to me. The features are important, not the package/vender.

1. Does this approach sound reasonable?
2. Am I overlooking any major considerations?
3. Some folks say I should use a dual processor server (2 X $$) just to be safe. They didn't really have any facts or experience to justify the recommendation. Maintenance and tech support are priced as a % of the product cost, which is another consideration on cost.
4. The vender said Smart Reporting "requires" CE; however, I read that folks are running reports without CE ($ savings?). I'm looking into this but I need to make a decision very soon.

Any info you can give me would be appreciated.

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Other things I considered
-I've looked at other reporting tools (Business Objects, Cognos, Web Focus, etc.); however, they appear to be for generating reports on the fly rather than manipulating predesigned reports or query interfaces. My users are looking to create reports.
-Crystal seems to let me leverage my SQL server features.
-Crystal reference books, class rooms and forums are easy to find.
-Crystal users/developers are easier to find than some of the other report types. -Installation appears simpler.

 

[chris777]

For what its worth...

I used to sell Crystal Products for a partner before becoming a consultant and as far as licensing is concerned, your overriding factor is the size/frequency of the reports. If you are going to have a heavy load of scheduled/ad hoc reports, you may want to consider CAL instead of processor. For the price of a processor licenses you should be able to get twenty or thirty CAL licenses for the same price. Then you can add all the horsepower you need without paying Crystal. I've not seen any kind of 'benchmarking' for report processing so I can't help you there.

We use the smart reporting because we need to change datasources dynamically when the report is run and use Smart Reporting, CE and ASP to accomplish that. You can use standalone Crystal Reports to accomplish what you want (rather than buying CE) but you have to then build a scheduling and security program, as well as purchase a Broadcast License from Crystal (which is at least) as much as a 10 CAL for CE). I've never believed in re-inventing the wheel!

Sounds like your on the right track. Help this helps some. Chris
DFW Crystal User Group

http://www.dfwcug.com

 

[TruthAndBeauty]

Thanks Chris. I appreciate the feedback.

Ii wish 25 CAL = 1 process license; however, after "discounts" the processor cost is the same as 12 CAL. I'm not sure if CAL is high or processor license is low. the price

I asked Crystal about a benchmark for a single processor and he said (with not obligation) that "a single processor can handle about 50 CR users". FACT/fiction? Optimistic/conservative? The session length (1-20 minutes), report complexity,infrastructure, sun position relative to the moon, etc. are all factors influencing the actual performance at any given time.

Something I didn't know was that "the session connection doesn't disconnect when the user terminates the browser but ratherdepends on the session timeout setting." Hmmm! I'll find a way to terminate the session.

I have a single processor, highend PC. The vender is getting me a CE license to let me try some stress test with Crystal. I'm not paying double the price for one venders product only because I needed to go to a dual processor on another venders product. I'll decide on Crystal after the testing. I like the features of Crystal and I hope it work out.

Thanks again.

 

[kenhamady]

Are you pricing the processor license for CE Standard or CE Professional? That may be the difference, although the prices also may simply be fluid. Below is an article that outlines the different configurations for CE:

http://www.kenhamady.com/ce.html

And here is an overview of licenses and fees that may be information that you already know:

http://www.kenhamady.com/news0202.html

Ken Hamady, On-site Custom Crystal Reports Training & Consulting
Public classes and individual training.
Guide to using Crystal in VB

http://www.kenhamady.com/

tek@kenhamady.com

 

[TruthAndBeauty]

Sorry for the delay- I'm been away. I read about the different configuration and found it interesting reading. Here where I'm at.

I'm looking at getting:
- CE Professional - unlimited users
This will give my audience canned reports, parameter driven reports and drill down capability.
- Smart Reporter - 15 concurrent users
This will give query (fields, sort, filter) capability
-10 additional copies of CR (one copy comes with CE

I'm not going for OLAP capability because it's more than my audience is ready for and CD wants to charge additional CE licenses because...OLAP reports are...different than CR reports (???).

I'm getting ready to test CE Professional using a single processor machine. I have a Dell Optiplex 240, 1.7ghz, 20g hard drive, 512 meg memory. CD felt that one processor could handle at least 50 concurrent CR users. The only thing on the Dell is CE. I'll work to stress the processor and see if everything is OK and that the processor can handle the expected growth.

I'll be running a variety of reports (nested, simple, complex), many concurrently. I will be measuring processor time, blocking, connectivity, concurrent connections, bottlenecks, heavy processes, and overall site usability (appearance and performance).

I'm open to any ideas on what to measure or watch for.

So far, the biggest problem is learning enough about the product to build efficient dynamic reports in order to run tests. We have 60 days of tech support to go along with the 30-day eval software. This helps keep things on schedule.

Thanks for your comments and interest.

Robert

 

[kenhamady]

If you are just getting started with CR, 30 Days isn't much for both learning and testing. Do you really need 10 designer licenses? Will that many people be creating and modifying the reports? Ken Hamady, On-site Custom Crystal Reports Training & Consulting
Public classes and individual training.
Guide to using Crystal in VB

http://www.kenhamady.com/

tek@kenhamady.com

 

[TruthAndBeauty]

kenhamady,


30 days is a short time to learn and test and yet I have to face fiscal year funding and waiting customers. It took a lot of time to evaluate other products (Business Objects, Cognos, Web focus, Proclairty, MSAccess, ASP, etc.) to the point we could select one for testing. I've got four programmers and my system administrator working together on a concentrated effort to learn CR and conduct the tests.

I'm open to any ideas that would help me focus on performance issues you feel might be suspect in my proposed configuration. Any thought on the single processor approach?

We are working of some outer join issues, grouping and a few other adjustment.


I'm interested in coming up with some best practices for CR development/implementation. If we are going to create views and stored procedures as a meta data layer on the SQL server, I need to discover or create a strategy and naming convention that will allow a new person to understand and find existing views/code rather than reinvent the wheel.

As for the 10 CR, well, you've got me thinking. Reports are one of our main products; however, as we move to the web, our workload of the past will be greatly reduced and I need to rethink this IT shop. Thanks for asking the question.

I appreciate the feedback and it helps me see gap and correct them before they become problem.


Robert

 

[chris777]

We are running a single processor CE implementation (using processor licensing). My company develops an ASP (app serv provider) software product and we ran into one major issue.

If you view reports through CE you are tying up a thread on the processor as long as the report is open. You need to be aware of your expected concurrent use. I think the max is 250 open threads in CE? (don't quote me). At this time, we are getting around this by using Smart Reporting and sending the report straight to an export format chosen by the customer through choices given them in an ASP page, either MS Word (RTF), Excel, or PDF. The other option is to adjust the timeout of the session. By default it is 20 minutes.

Obviously I am not a programmer, but as one of the lead report designers, this is my understanding of the problem. Chris
DFW Crystal User Group

http://www.dfwcug.com