VOIP is it really dependable now?

[firefoxfire]

I keep hearing that VOIP is just not there yet. A new client of mine is asking me to remove his VOIP and install a traditional small business system due to all the technical problems he has had with it.

Is VOIP as reliable as the old standard systems?

Is there one VOIP system that stands out from the rest?

I am so use to installing and maintaining systems with almost zero problems that I am concerned about how truly reliable these new systems will be for my clients, their businesses, staff and customers.

 

[hairlessupportmonkey]

VoIP isnt the problem, its the implementation of it.

Network, broadband, no QoS etc etc all determine the quality and success of the install.

The size of the install would then determine how much focus you spent on some of the above. A few handsets would run OK over an existing small network where a large install would require time and effort and money spend on the infrastructure.



ACSS - SME
General Geek

 

[firefoxfire]

Ok then I will be blunt, who is to blame for these problems? The vendor the customer or both?

Are the vendors, and many of these are just computer geeks who are trying to be phone vendors and make some extra money, or are the customers not willing to pay the money to shore up their existing networks via better cabling, higher network speeds etc..

Is this a lack of educating the client?

Are some of these problems related to slow or unreliable internet provider services?

Thank you

 

[whykap]

Firefox,
Your argument goes both ways. To properly design and install a IP system the vendor needs to be well versed in networks as well as telephony. So what you also see is alot of traditional TDM vendors trying to enter the VoIP world and have the same result as network only guys trying to do the same.
You will see joined efforts in many cases to combine expertees.
To answer your question, VoIP systems have arrived a long time ago and they are reliable and as capable as any Legacy system.
What makes them unreliable is a network that cannot handle the additional voice traffic and people who try to install it that don't know how.

 

[mattKnight]

>Are some of these problems related to slow or unreliable internet provider services

TBH, I take a dim view of any implementation that uses a shared medium, no support for QoS and (generally) no SLA, such as the internet.

Yeah it works fine, until it doesn't...

Take Care

Matt
I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone.
My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone.

 

[donb01]

I'm probably going to be making the big move to rolling out some level of VOIP in 2013, and right or wrong (feel free to comment) these are some of the arguments I have used in the "task force" (read Myself, one network guy, and 8 people who are clueless and just want VOIP because it's the schiznit, but with no real business reasoning).

We have about 1600 devices spread across maybe 8 sites. One large one, 2 medium size ones, and a few smaller ones. I asked the vendors to propose a Hybrid system with a small initial IP rollout (mayabe a couple hundred phones) to get our feet wet, and as/if we developed a need to roll out more IP we could do that easily. This logic was based on the fact that our network sucks major a$$ - no QoS, no consistency, a variety of hardware, existing bandwidth issues between sites, no UPS in the closets, and etc....

The "task force" wanted to know why I was doing such a small IP rollout - they want MORE IP - they don't want "to be sitting at the same table 3 years from now explaining why they didn't do it that way....". I was told to roll out 800 IP sets (about 500 of the 1600 devices are analog). I had a hissy fit and told them there was no way I was dropping a system like that on the network they have now unless I had some kind of iron-clad guarantee I was not going to lose my job if the whole thing blew up. I said I wouldn't get anywhere near it unless we brought the network up to 100% current-day standards before we even thought about the phones. Our IT services are outsourced, and the company that is responsible for that was present at this meeting on the conference phone, and they backed me up 100%.

So 2012 is the year of the network - somewhere around $600K in infrastructure and hardware upgrades, full POE, full QoS, etc, and conceivably 2013 is the year we take the plunge on the phone systems.

I am still planning to demand a hybrid system, because we are in healthcare, and I have seen the network go down often enough for me to still want a contingency plan, and I have seen at least three major failures on our emergency power grid lasting several hours. It is my intent to place TDM phones in all of the critical areas so that in the event something happens to the network, or even one switch fails, or whatever, that we will still have minimal service in all the critical areas. When you are dealing in human lives it only takes one missed "code blue" call because no working phone was available to change someone's life. I don't want to have to go to bed at night worrying about that.

The plan I have is that the bulk of the features and processing power will be at my main site, and each of my remote sites will have survivable remotes and keep their own PRI trunks. In the event something happens in the system each site will still be able to stand on their own - they may just lose some of the advanced features and desk to desk dialing to the other sites and voicemail. I will feel comfortable with this scenario.

Do I trust the technology? Yes. Do I think prices are still too high and will come down more? Yes. Do I trust my IT people to not screw it up? No. Do I trust my network? No - not the way it is, anyway. Do I trust my vendor? Yes, if I get to stay with the vendor I have now who has given us excellent service for 30 years - If we get a new one and a different hardware platform that will remain to be seen. These are all the questions that I am thinking about for this upcoming major change in the way we do things around here, and the potential for the continued future of my career!

 

[GordonKapesMZ4]

I have a great network consisting of a Nortel BSR222 router, Nortel BES50 24 port 12 port POE stack, and the BCM50 with AT&T High Speed DSL service. My Network has performed very well with the only issues coming from the VOIP.MS SIP trunking provider. Those issues maybe occur about once every 3-4 months with a mild outage, but they bring the system up right away. My network consistently provides crystal clear PRI like technology to my systems (knock on wood)!!!!

I am using 4 different systems in my home lab:

-The new UCx50 by Emetrotel, which is designed by Nortel Norstar/BCM/Meridian 1 Engineers who started their own company after the breakup of Nortel in 2009. So far I have liked this system the best as its rich and full of features that operates like a mix between a BCM and CS1000. I appreciate the fact that you can use any Nortel Unistim/Meridian/Tseries or Nortel/3rd party SIP phones on their system. You can definitely tell this system is designed by Nortel developers and engineers, and I am eventually seeing this becoming a huge system in the market.

-The BCM50 RLS 6.0. I've been successful at running failsafe SIP trunking with Nortel i2004, 11xx, 12xx Unistim phones and voip.ms SIP trunking. The Meridian and T series work clean and crisp with the SIP trunking as well. Kind of ironic because these phones were designed way before SIP trunking was common.

-Nortel 1120E/1140E/1220 SIP phones running directly off VOIP.MS. These work very well on a good network, crystal clear voice and no jitter. The phones work like they are connected to a Nortel/Avaya platform with enhanced CLID, 8 Nortel ring tones, Call Buzz, 100 calls-call logging, LED illumination for voice mail, basically it works like a phone on a CS1000 or CS2100 platform, but can be connected to any 3rd party SIP system. I use the standard feature set with RLS 4.15, which default required a license, but you can go in an disable per the link I have left below. 2.0 SIP frimware available on Avaya's website (for the 11xx sets) is free, but the features are more limited than the newer releases. The technique for deciphering the code to not use the extended feature set on the RLS 3.0 and RLS 4.0 of the Nortel/Avaya SIP phones is located here:

http://forums.networkinfrastructure...es-from-extended-feature-set-on-ip-deskphone/

-Finally I use a free version 3cx platform attached to my desktop PC. I have connected an Avaya 9630 SIP and a Cisco 797 to the 3cx platform. These phones have been the most problematic as their coding is somewhat difficult. The Avaya phone was almost impossible to program, so I had expert help on that. The Cisco 7970 was a breeze if you code it correctly. 3cx runs the internal lines on the Internet very well and I've had no problems with the SIP trunking from VOIP.MS on this system either.

So to sum it up, with the 4 different options I've listed here, I've had excellent service with my SIP trunking. I have over 24 phones set up in an 800 sq. ft. condo/office, so as small as my system is, I do resemble an office and have had good luck with SIP trunking and VOIP. I would recommend always having an expert on hand just in case something goes out. A service contract with
E-metrotel-UCx50, Cisco, Avaya or your IP-PBX provider is a must for unforeseen circumstances that can even occur on a legacy digital system.

With all of that equipment, I now need a CS1000 mini....anyone want to sell me one? LOL

 

[biv343]

GK - I could have gotten you an Option 11 compact with mermail on release 21, but the customer sent it to the electronics graveyard. You'd have been hard pressed to do much SIP trunking to that old beast.

 

[IPGuru]

donb01

I think your plan to provide redundancy & fall back at each site is exactly the correct approach (in any business not just healthcare).

if you are currently experiencing network outages then your network is absolutely NOT suitable for VoIP (& I know HSM would back me on that statement)

VoIP requires a perfect network that is also configured in a VoIP compatible way:

QOS support.
Separate Vlans for voice & data.
PSTN fallback for Sip Trunks.
IT dept Familiar with all of the above.

although it is possible to work around some of the above I would say if you do things on the cheap it will cost you dear.

other well worn phrases that fit are use the correct tool for the correct job and if it ain't broke don't fix it!

Computers are like Air conditioners:-
Both stop working when you open Windows

 

[GordonKapesMZ4]

Hi Biv,

If you come across any other people scrapping an Option 11 or Option 11 Mini that I can upgrade to use 11xx and 12xx phones, let me know. I know nothing about these systems, but I do admit, I like the way the 11xx and 12xx sets operate on the Meridian 1/CS1000 platform way better than BCM and would really enjoy experimenting with a system.

Thanks,

JP

 

[biv343]

I haven't pulled out any 1000E's, but lots of Option 11s from release 21 to 4.5. The issue with upgrading is that Avaya has made it comparatively expensive to upgrade. By the time you buy the new CPPM/CPMGS card, upgrade/buy CallPilot, and let's not forget the mandatory PASS attachment, you're at 1/2 the price of a new system, or sometimes more, and that usually doesn't include phones. Most people rate the phone system based on the telephone on the desk. A 2616 or 2008, while very reliable, appear antiquated to the users. We've removed many 200 station or less Option 11s and installed IP Office systems. The customer gets new sets, comparative feature sets and a system which costs much less to maintain and is easier to administer. Your best bet is to search ebay for someone selling a 1000e on release 5.5 or higher, stay away from anything 5.0 or lower if you want to use 1200 series sets.

Don't get me wrong. I still have a soft spot for Nortel, but it seems as if Avaya is trying to bury the legacy Nortel products. I guess in a way I'm helping, but at least I'm keeping cisco out of the accounts.

 

[GordonKapesMZ4]

Hi Biv,

I do agree that the dolphin grey or chameleon grey M series phones look pretty dated, but the black sets still look pretty good if they have been dusted and taken care of. I found a cs1000m 4.5 on eBay for $3500 fully loaded, but it uses PRI cards and SIP would be an expensive upgrade. Plus like you said it won't support 12xx sets.

I know you're die hard Avaya now, but have you had a chance to check out the Emetrotel UCx system yet? The owners and employees of this company are alumni of Nortel who have developed everything from Option 11 to BCM to DMS switching platforms. They are basically taking all the technology that Avaya is dumping and giving it new life on a new IP -PBX platform. I am testing a system out at home and all of the things I wish the BCM had from 8 ring tones, key clicks, call buzz, enhanced CLID, enhanced ip set button display and many other goodies, this system has.

Take care!