Viudeo card differences and suggestions. 2

[southwolf]

I currently have a Dell Dimension 4600C and my current video controller is an integrated Intel® Extreme Graphics 2. The service manual also states that a low-profile AGP video card is also supported—4X and 8X. I have a couple of questions about this statement and then a few about choosing a card.

1)Does this mena that as long as I stay withing the low profile 4x and 8x specifications that my power supply will support it.

2) What does 4x and 8x refer to? (Most cards I found are listed 4x/8x, so I don't suppose that much matters.)

3) What is Open GL? I am stuck between a few cards and the major difference is the Open GL version. One may be OGL 1.4 and the other OGL 1.5. Which is better and does it really matter?

4) I am confused as to the RAM that some cards carry. Most all cards I have seen have a mem size in the name. (i.e.
Apollo FX5500 GeForce FX5500 256MB DDR AGP 4X/8X Video Card.) But in the specs of the card, the memory interface will say 128mb. Why is that?

5) Last but not least. I only want to upgrade this to play WOW. The current card does ok as long as too much activety isn't taking place. But when too many other players are in the area, it gets a little choppy. I am pretty sure this is from the card because other characters shadows can be seen but not the character itself. I am considering an Albatron FX5500Q GeForce FX5500 256MB 128-bit DDR AGP 4X/8X Low Profile Video Card. The link for it's specs are here:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814170050

And Blizzard suggest these specs on a card:

* Minimum: 32MB 3D graphics processor with Hardware Transform and Lighting, such as an NVIDIA GeForce 2 class card or above.
* Recommended: 64MB VRAM 3D graphics processor with Vertex and Pixel Shader capability, such as an NVIDIA GeForce FX 5700 class card or above.

Is the card I am considering better than what I have and worth my time to upgrade to?

 

[felixc]

The amount of DRAM in your system is very important when playing WoW. Choppy images when many characters appear (for example in IF) are caused more by a lack of system RAM than slow graphics. You need more than a Gig of DRAM in order to reduce this problem.

There seems to be several Dell machines bearing this part number. Can you see what is the wattage of your power supply. Good graphic cards consume more current. Aside from the power supply, the physical size allowable for the AGP card may be an issue in your system.

A Geforce5700 is on the low side for a decent performance. Geforce 6600 would be at a good price spot for an acceptable performance in Wow. If the space and the power allows.

 

[southwolf]

One thing I do know is that I must have a "Low Profile" card because of the space in my system. It is a more compact version of the dell demension series. Price isn't really an issue. Want to get the best I can fit into it. (Within reason. I saw one for over 1 grand) Anything under $200 is acceptable. My power supply is 160w. Also, I do only have 512 mb of RAM. Would you say, I would see more benefit in upgrading to at least a gig, rather than changing video cards? If you would like to see more specs on this machine here is the link to it's spec manual at dell:

http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim4600c/sm/specs.htm#1106234

 

[paparazi]

I cannot even begin to tell you the amount of times we have seen similar posts involving Dell machines.
Generally users wanting better gaming graphics.
These initial posts leading to long debates about some Dells using proprietory cases/PSU's and motherboards and how difficult it is to upgrade them.

So I'm going to condense it down to:
Generally there are so many complications that a new base unit is advised.
Firstly a 160watt power supply is totally inadequate for any reasonable graphics card upgrade and you will find you are tied to DELL and there very high prices for a better replacement (because of possible proprietory wiring, unique to Dell)
You are always going to be struggling finding a low profile high end gaming card in 8X AGP

Personally I would be tempted to spend some of the money on a new case and PSU (350watts plus) if you are able to get front panel pin out wiring info.

At least this way you have loads more options with full sized cards and enough juice to power them.

Maybe an Antec Sonata or similar that already comes with a quality PSU installed.


Martin


We like members to GIVE and not just TAKE.
Participate and help others.

 

[pmonett]

The only thing Extreme about Intel integrated graphics is the general consensus that its performance, to put it mildly, is underwhelming. In other words, if you purchase the slowest, cheapest add-in 3D card you can find, it'll blow the Intel performance to the moon (okay, I might be exaggerating).

AGP is seriously on the way out, the advantage of that being that low-spec AGP cards are almost a dime a dozen. Personally, I'd go with the OpenGL revision 1.5, but I have no experience or data to back that preference. I would most certainly enjoin you to purchase additional RAM, though, since the performance impact is superior to the cost/capacity ratio.

To summarize, for performance you are well justified in purchasing another half-gig of RAM and a low-cost AGP card. I would venture that only upgrading your RAM would benefit your Windows performance, but would probably not have a significant impact on WoW due to the very feeble capabilities of the video chipset. So you need both.

As for the difference between 4x and 8x, you must know that it concerns the bandwidth at which the card functions. 8x cards exchange data twice as fast as 4x cards, and most of them are compatible with the 4x data-rate.
It has been a while since I last looked at AGP performance, but I seem to remember that 8x cards have a measurable superiority over 4x cards, so it is better to go with 8x if your motherboard supports it, which is your case.

Pascal.


I've got nothing to hide, and I'd very much like to keep that away from prying eyes.

 

[paparazi]

southwolf
The single most important factor in gaming performance is without a doubt the graphics card, possibly followed by the CPU and motherboard chipset then the amount of ram.

Although I agree 1gig will help, on a cost versa's gain basis the extra ram is not value.

The main problem you have is that 160watt PSU and that fact you are restricted to low profile.
These factors will not allow an upgrade above "entry level" even though I admit even this will be vastly better than the onboard "extreme" graphics has to offer.

To take you to the sweet spot! that is a middle ranking card like an Nvidia 6600GT then the case and the PSU have to go!

Yes! look out for the cards with faster DDRIII memory, don't be tricked into beleiving cards with more memory are necessarily quicker, it's not always the case.
For instance a 128mb Nvidia 6600GT is at least 40% quicker than a plain 6600 with 256mb onboard, it's all about the GPU/memory speed and interface.
Martin




We like members to GIVE and not just TAKE.
Participate and help others.

 

[felixc]

Given the incredible 160W power supply, I'd say to go to the memory upgrade first. The system description given at the Dell website has the whole range of Intel CPUs. If your CPU is in the upper range, chances are that the power supply is fully loaded. Some of these CPUs alone get in the 100 watt range.

I have a gaming keyboard that displays the system status permanently. On one of my systems (768Megs), when Wow is active, the system memory gets filled to 80%. When new maps and textures are loaded (when entering in big places) the system chokes and goes swapping onto the hard disk. Memory is at 100%. When that same system had 512 Megs of RAM, choppy is a feeble word to describe the display when the bird was arriving at Ironforge. You saw the door, a couple of screenshots, then you were on the ground. The hard disk is used as the memory buffer. This is the bottleneck. A better CPU or graphics card will not change a thing to that fact.

Another of my systems, with the same graphics card but with one Gig of memory, behaves better in big cities. So if your graphics are bearable outside of the cities, then go to more memory first. About $65. for 512Megs of DDR. A memory module is easier to return to the vendor. Then you will see if you want better resolution or graphic quality. But then you will need another system. Enjoy your game.

 

[NetworkStarter]

A lot of people are looking for a good video card option for the 4600c (as well as other slim pc's) so that they can upgrade to Windows Vista (which requires at least 128MB of video ram). However, the 4600c and other slim pc's require a low-profile card, and there are very few available these days, whether pci or agp (the 4600c requires agp).

The best option I've seen is the XFX Geforce 6200, which has a large number of very good buyer reviews on tigerdirect.com and sells for about $50 on amazon. This card comes with a full size bracket, but XFX has a low-profile bracket kit you can also purchase for about $10, which will allow you to convert the card for a low profile system. You can get both on tigerdirect, amazon, etc, etc, and they are available in both pci and agp versions.

UNFORTUNATELY, this card and most others require more power than the 4600c power supply provides. The card states that at least 250 watts is required, and the only power supply that ever shipped with the 4600c provides a measly 160 watts, well below the requirements of even the lowest end video cards. The results can be completely frustrating, including just watching your video blink off the screen even though the monitor button is still green. A quick solution is to just turn the monitor off and then turn it right back on. The video card will recognize the monitor again and the video will come back on immediately. However, it will likely blink off again within minutes.

FORTUNATELY, even though the 4600c never had a higher level power supply, the 4700c had a media center version that shipped with a 270 watt power supply. The Dell part number is F6442. You can find these retail by googling them, or you can sometimes find them on ebay. The cheapest I've seen were just over $50 at softarcade.net:

http://www.softarcade.net/Dell-F644...edia-Center-Veresion-of-4700C_p_803-5677.html

And used-pcs.com also has them for just about $60. Of course, these are used prices. If you want new, you can go here for about $100:

http://www.centrix-intl.com/details.asp?productid=1099

This particular website shows that the F6442 power supply will fit in a whole series of Dell slim computers (OptiPlex GX50, GX60, GX150,GX240, GX270, GX280 SSF aka Small Form-Factor, Dimension 4500C, 4600C, and 4700C).

I personally have physically reviewed the wiring connections of the 4600c and verified that these upgraded 4700c power supplies should fit in the 4600c, so it should solve your extra power needs, allowing you to upgrade your video card, operating system and gaming capability all in one shot.

Regards,
NetworkStarter

P.S. Mentioning the XFX card is not a promotion (which is not allowed on these forums), it's just a recommended solution based on experience with this type of situation.

 

[NetworkStarter]

Just an update to my previous post: The power issues I described above turned out to be the flat panel monitor itself (and it occurred on other systems as well). So once the monitor's issue was resolved the 4600c has performed flawlessly with the 6200, Vista and the 160 watt ps. I don't think you have to worry about upgrading the ps.

Regards,
NetworkStarter