vfp ide "mimic"

[okarl]

Greetins Experts!

I'am kind of inmerse in a personal project that uses a spa to mimic the desktop ide.
( hope I'm not promoting nothing here cause is my third attempt and it even hasn't a name yet nor sure if is going to see the light someday)

Anyway the question is, what additional functionality you would use it for apart from open files, compile prg's with popup errors, browse dbf's and a command window.
Create dbf's is now possible but nothing on dbc's yet

Of course no advanced options are possible like open vcx, class browser, etc but some type of basic forms would be possible in a near future ( to be defined) and there is serious security considerations using the command window that executes on the server... I know

but Hey ! prg's can be compiled in an Android/IOS tablet I'm somehow putting vfp in new areas

Thaks in advance


When I said that I was concentrated on programming, so my state of consciousness was attenuated

 

[Mike Lewis]

Okarl, welcome to the forum.

It's difficult to know what functionality to suggest without having more of an idea of what you are trying to achieve. Why exactly do you want to mimic the IDE functionality? What is your goal?

Also, could you explain what a "spa" is in this context? Other people here might be familiar with the term, but I am not.

You say "no advanced options are possible like open vcx, class browser, etc". Those options certainly are possible, in that you can do them all programmatically within VFP, but that doesn't mean there is a good reason for doing so.

Finally, you say "prg's can be compiled in an Android/IOS tablet". If that's right, that would be very interesting. Perhaps you could explain.

Mike

__________________________________
Mike Lewis (Edinburgh, Scotland)

Visual FoxPro articles, tips and downloads

 

[okarl]

Thank you Mike

spa means single page application, so all ui is done on a browser using only javascript/html, but the web server side uses vfp runtimes, so it's possible to do many things, but not all,

For now It's all done using avfp controllers, but hope it can be implemented in other vfp servers like foxweb, wwc, or fox2iis.

About the intention, well my first version was only for open some files instead of using ftp, but then added more and more, and... ended creating a semi-ide, so no specific use, but I realize that a 'tool' like this could be used for different pourposses, so things could be added if needed (in the future even dinamically) but right now is more like a static asp page with unlimited windows to open for a defined functions.

Finally open or create new prg's stored on a server folder of an intranet/webserver don't need more than a browser so is no OS dependant nor need to have installed anything on client side, that is an advantage in some situations.

feel free if need some more aclaration, thanks



When I said that I was concentrated on programming, so my state of consciousness was attenuated

 

[Olaf Doschke]

Well, the limited functionality you now have may be handy for some remote debugging etc, but I'd use a fully installed VFP via remote desktop for this kind of work anyway, no need for a IDE replacement or emulation via JS/HTML. I do work with a VFP installation for a corporation and besides needing a license this is no big point to them as they have not only one MSDN enterprise subscription anyway.

What's the main aspect of your product? To have the VFP IDE without VFP? To enable Foxpro developers to develop without VFP but sticking with their VFP knowledge? It's easy for a developer to keep his IDE alive on a new machine. We don't even yet have any incompatibiity, VFP9 works in Win10. Even if Win11 or 12 would make a difference, I could do work within a VM. The critical thi9ng wouild be the runtime not working on future Windows versions, so you can't deploy apps even jsut as server for webapps. The runtime has to work.

For that matter Christof Wollenhaupt has started Guineu, which itself is written in C# and merely is a VFP runtime project, not an IDE. It can run VFP opcodes, so you can run FXP or EXE or DLL via a new runtime which will be working as long as the .NET runtime works, the binding to the old VFP and in turn the old C++ runtimes is removed and that's possible since VFP compiled code like Java code is not consisting of ASM or C or C++ but just opcodes which need an interpreter runtime, which can also be done in C# or any other modern language having a future. This is the real life prolonging a VFP developer needs to be able to run the final product as is.

Often enough companies run EXE,DLL,FXP etc. without having source code, so their perhaps business critical apps depend on the VFP runtime. Many 2.6 apps are still alive in DOS emulators and you can deduct Winform apps will be kept alive using same techniques with XP,Vista or Win10 emulation and for that matter the apps life span will continue to grow. It's hardly a good move in terms of integration with modern OS and UI/UX or other things like SQL Server or Office. That's why it's so sad deciders just listen to the aspect their existing apps may continue to work, but no application staying as it is will make the necessary difference to competition advancing their apps to incorporate new things, new ways, new peripheral possibilities like IoT. The VFP world is not even fully converted to VFP9 and since it has already deprecated that will not happen, people just stay with what they have.

It may be a nice idea to create a new IDE and add some new features, to stay in VFP, but there's too much movement in the external world to keep up the pace with integration of everything else. It won't make VFP resurrect, if you could work with >2GB DBFs, this already exists, Unicode also doesn't help VFP to revive. I'm in my final months of working with VFP for a company, then will surely take advantage of my VFP knowledge where I find work about it, but not for any price. I go the web/cloud route and start to dig into PHP/Laravel and even also quite legacy WordPress Plugins, things I can do as Freelancer on my own. I have enough base knowlegde left from my time before VFP to go that route.

Bye, Olaf.

 

[okarl]

Thanks for your inputs Olaf

I'm aware of many of the description you allready done, I used to start in the bussness 40 years ago with cobol74, and worked for big enterprises corporations.
Said that, I am also could not see any valid reason, why a company would not need this kind of tool for his own needs, so I really feel It is not a matter of think of strange uses for it, but take the possibilities it would offer
that's all about I+D+I dont you think so ?

cheers Karl

When I said that I was concentrated on programming, so my state of consciousness was attenuated

 

[Olaf Doschke]

As long as you can simply rnu the full native VFP IDE (vfp9.exe), why would you go fro any emulation? Companies doing VFP development will have VFP licenses.

Ed Leafe has written a runtime VFP command window with vRunFox6,7,8 and 9, which enable you to execute VFP commands without VFP. But what's it worth, if you have VFP? This is only interesting for saving a license cost and some minor debugging and fixing tool. Today as said I use remote desktop or Teamviewer or radmin or any such tool and can work on site remotely if needed with VFP9 copied over, the license isn't bound to a PC/CPU/installation but to me as user... I don't have the need to have a IDE replacement on site. Why would I go for anything less than the real full blown IDE, today? Such tools are only giving me partial help.

Bye, Olaf.

 

[okarl]

You are probably right, but also alternative solutions, are those that brings some new ideas to create rpoducts yo have never think about, the desktop ide isn't easy to modify or add new functionality, and there are things that could be done 'outside'. one simple example is... I always hate to click on save button on the ide in the menu, ( and because I'm a smoker I dont use hotkeys because I allways have a cigarrete in left hand) so.... I put a save button in each window

When I said that I was concentrated on programming, so my state of consciousness was attenuated

 

[Olaf Doschke]

Maybe you should take a look at VFPX Thor, it modifies the sysmenu. you can easily expand he VFP IDE, several parts and tools of it are written in VFP and were always open sourced as XSource.zip download, wizards, report apps, taskpane, and several more all are VFP projects, how do you think foxypreviewer was done? It was taking the sources of Report apps as basis and extended them.

If you say you can better expand the VFP IDE from outside, I'd only agree, if you aim for a total rebuild with a new basis like the Visual Studio Isolated Shell. See

http://www.sweetpotatosoftware.com/blog/index.php/2008/02/20/vfp-studio-code-editor-screencast/,

a project stuck in its childhood.

I haven't seen any better "shell" to VFP projects up to now, than what VFP itself offers. In regard of save menu item: The VFP standard toolbar has a save button, what does a save button in forms help within the IDE? I designed mostly all forms with a save button, too, for end users, but it's a button for saving the data they work with in the form, not the form itself. Settings like position and size are stored in foxuser.dbf, no need to redo that.

Bye, Olaf.

 

[okarl]

ok, if you don't see it usefull I don't see it either.... thowin to the trash, next project

When I said that I was concentrated on programming, so my state of consciousness was attenuated

 

[Mike Lewis]

Karl, I wouldn't go as far as to say you should throw it in the trash. If you see this project as some kind of intellectual challenge, then by all means continue with it.

Most of us don't have time for such luxuries. In the world I work in, projects are driven by demand. You develop an application, or a tool, because someone - a client or an employer - needs it, and is prepared to pay money to have it. I'm not saying there is definitely no demand for the project you are trying to achieve, but I would want to be be more sure about that before spending a lot of time on it.

I hope this hasn't discouraged you from coming back to this forum - both to ask questions and to answer other people's.

Mike

__________________________________
Mike Lewis (Edinburgh, Scotland)

Visual FoxPro articles, tips and downloads

 

[okarl]

Thank you Mike

I would like to say, that it is a replacement for ftp, load/save files, a tool to browse unknown named tables remotely when you are not at the office or without a full vfp installed on your hands, a way to test if a prg has compilation errors from any device, or something else , but I can't define yet what it is, only the thigns that can be done and asking for needs I could try to achieve that sometimes you can't do with a vfp and need external tools, so it can be usefull to someone someday. that's all

Thanks
Karl

When I said that I was concentrated on programming, so my state of consciousness was attenuated

 

[Olaf Doschke]

Mike is correct, there are other efforts to extend life of VFP in some way. Just because I consider something not useful you don't know if others disagree.

Anyway, if you look around you find others with about same goals have given up, if your main goal is a replacement of the VFP IDE, then that already has got stuck, unsure if Craig Boyd was simply too busy with other things or the demand was low.

> prg's can be compiled in an Android/IOS tablet I'm somehow putting vfp in new areas
If you mean the final fxps run in Android, well then you did something more than just offer an JS based IDE running on other platforms like Android. You should perhaps make that much clearer because some here surely will be enthusiastic about this, especially not versed with anything else but VFP.

Guineus runtime also works on Mac and Linux because there is Mono, for example. It also works on Windows CE, though that has got obsolete with Windows tablets. In the end a runtime which runs on many platforms can make VFP code run on them, too. It's a bit questionable whether that has big impact and meaning, as long as you can't run a full blown EXE on Android it's not of much help, at least to me. If you can port a project with all features and about 20 MB soucres (just code, not including graphics or word templates or such), than still a tablet lacks the same UX than a desktop and Office automation of a non existing MS Office for Android, and, and, and. Of course such a platform wouldn't just be there to port a desktop app to use with Android tablets. The simpler solution for that is to use Windows tablets.

I'm not stuck on VFP only development knowledge, so maybe I'm less eager to get VFP code running cross platform, if I want something to integrate well on some platform native development will be better suited in my oppinion and best cross platforms are JAVA and if I go MS route then VS with Xamarin.

Bye, Olaf.

 

[okarl]

Olaf youare loosing a bit the main point here, this is not a proffesional replacement for.... nothing , just a tool that could be used for things no other small utilities can do, and could be performed to do other things that migth require 3 or more software apps, so we can try or surrender at first, saying it is impossible


When I said that I was concentrated on programming, so my state of consciousness was attenuated

 

[Olaf Doschke]

I'm just saying if you give people a little finger they'll grab the whole hand. When you say there is the possibility to execute VFP code on Android and not much is working, then the disappointment will be higher than the excitement. Many such things have already been proposed and announced and then merely faded away.

Bye, Olaf.

 

[okarl]

Lets put an example, a client comes and say I have a table which I cant' remember the name stored on my website, and need to change the first field in the first record, and we would say, ok, download the table via ftp, do the replacement and then upload again, but that might not be the only solution , work on the web directly is somehow possible but need some previous configurations... not sure if I am showing a good example

When I said that I was concentrated on programming, so my state of consciousness was attenuated

 

[okarl]

I never said nothing about executing code, only mentioned commands in command window, but now that you say that, you can create a new controller, compile it, and execute it ... for testing

When I said that I was concentrated on programming, so my state of consciousness was attenuated

 

[Olaf Doschke]

If you use dbfs online you will have means to edit it online, too. What sense would an online DBF have, if there is no easy way to modify it? Read only data? If you really go for FoxWeb or Prolibs AFP or ActiveVFP or Rick Strahls WebConnect you have ways to change your online data online. Who's really hosting data as DBF files? If you have BDFs, you may have them in LAN or WAN and simple USE them.

Bye, Olaf.

 

[Olaf Doschke]

you can create a new controller, compile it, and execute it ... for testing

I don't follow at all what you're trying to say with that.

Controller, in the sense of the MVC pattern? Written in JS? VFP? Maybe you should show the project as screen cast to know what you're talking about. As far as I see I could only explain that with an impedance mismatch about different ideas of what simplicity means for web/mobile/tablet and desktop developers.

Bye, Olaf.

 

[okarl]

right Olaf a controller is a prg restful-like that recieves a request , and sends a response

When I said that I was concentrated on programming, so my state of consciousness was attenuated

 

[okarl]

As far as I see... I'm done, throwin it in the trash , I'm too old for convincing anyone that "out of the box" works


When I said that I was concentrated on programming, so my state of consciousness was attenuated