Use of comma in lists?

[Trevoke]

We're writing a brochure and the headline says :

"Providing our unsurpassed technology and service to East Setauket, Smithtown and the surrounding communities"

The question is : should there be a comma before the 'and', after the 'and' or no comma at all?

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[TheRambler]

In this forum I learned the use of the Oxford comma is optional. See thread1256-1354865.

 

[SantaMufasa]

Trevoke,

Conventional Wisdom from most schools of journalism and writing discourage commas between the last and the penultimate item in a list of three or more items.

There are those of us, however, that believe that such a convention is inconsistent. The Precision-Writing training materials that I use (not of my authorship) recommend placing (along with the standard item-separating commas) a comma prior to the conjunction that precedes the last item in a list of three or more entries.

For example: item 1, item 2, and item 3.

Also, by extension, for entries that contain commas as part of one or more individual entries, this philosophy suggests this construction:

Among other localities, I have lived in Twin Falls, Idaho; Menlo Park, California; the Midlands of England; and Sandy, Utah.

I'm sure there will be plenty of nay-sayers to this convention, but I, personally, live by it.

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]
A fo ben, bid bont.

 

[CajunCenturion]

There are some schools of thought that suggest that you should always use the Oxford comma, and there are those that suggest that the Oxford comma only be used when absolutely necessary to avoid ambiguity.

The nice thing is the both methods are correct, so it's a matter of personal taste and style. For me, I always use the Oxford comma.


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[EdwardMartinIII]

...or you can avoid the whole thing by using a bullet list:

We have significant holdings in
[ul]
[li]Bullets[/li]
[li]Underpants[/li]
[li]Nosehair clippers[/li]
[li]Textiles[/li]
[li]Medieval Reconstructionist Hair Pomade[/li]
[/ul]

Edward

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[Welshbird]

I think this depends hugely on location.

This side of that big wet thing that I recently sailed across Oxford comma's are just wrong, but I gather over there where most of you guys reside they can be correct.

Fee

"The cure for anything is salt water – sweat, tears, or the sea." Isak Dinesen

 

[johnwm]

Over here I believe Oxford commas are wrong, but then so are comma's apostrophes

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[KenCunningham]

The changeable nature of commas seems to be encapsulated by Santa's:

comma, comnma, comma chameleon

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[Trevoke]

Well, thanks a lot for the tips, guys
This should make the marketing dept happy.

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[Michael52x]

What's missing is the comma after Smithtown. Try it.

"Impatience will reward you with dissatisfaction" RMS Cosmics'97

 

[vanka25]

In grade school English I was taught that the Oxford Comma was required in lists; when I reached high school, I was told that the Oxford Comma was optional. Then my one of my Political Science instructors in college, who just happened to be a lawyer, required the Oxford Comma in essays explaining that its' absence created ambiguity.

He gave us the following example:

The $6,000 should be split evenly between Frank, Joe and Mary.

The $6,000 should be split evenly between Frank, Joe, and Mary.

The first sentence is ambiguous in whether each person should each get $2,000 or if Frank should get $3,000 while Joe and Mary share the other $3,000. The second sentence with the Oxford comma makes it clear that the $6,000 should be divided equally between the three of them; each person receiving $2,000.

 

[SantaMufasa]

Vanka,

And for clarification: in your "Quote (1)", the use of the preposition, "between", should eliminate any ambiguity since "between" should appear when there are specifically two entities. In that quote, the two entities would be [ul][li]Entity 1: Frank[/li][li]Entity 2: Joe and Mary[/li][/ul]In your "Quote (2)" the presence of the "Oxford comma" introduces a grammatical error: when there are interactions involving three or more entities, the proper word is "among" (UK: "amongst") instead of "between".

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]
“Beware of those that seek to protect you from harm. The cost will be your freedoms and your liberty.”

 

[vanka25]

SantaMufasa,

Noted. I am blaming it on the long weekend and the fact that I posted the comment early Monday morning. I of course meant to type "among" instead of "between".

 

[CajunCenturion]

However, SantaMufasa, in quote (1), whereas the use of between should only be used with exactly two entities, allowing such an interpretation requires the admission of another but different grammatical error. It is improper comma usage to separate exactly two entities with simply a comma.



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[KornGeek]

...but then so are comma's apostrophes

Shouldn't this read "commas' apostrophes"?

 

[AnotherHiggins]

KG - He was teasing Fee for the preceding post.

FWIW, I'm not a fan of the Oxford comma except when needed for clarification.

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[KornGeek]

John,
I get that he was teasing. I'm just returning the favor by question his placement of said apostrophe. After all, if we can't nit-pick here, where shall we pick nits?

 

[SantaMufasa]

It is improper comma usage to separate exactly two entities with simply a comma.

I totally agree, and I even contemplated mentioning that issue, but then it leaves us with further ambiguity:

The $6,000 should be split evenly between Frank and Joe and Mary.

Ambiguity under this circumstance:[ul][li]Did the writer intend a 3-way split (thus ignoring proper grammar and punctuation), or[/li][li]Did the writer intend a 2-way split between an individual and a two-person team. And if so, who is Joe's partner, with whom he shares the split? Frank or Mary?[/li][/ul]

A re-write for the sake of precision is in order:

The $6,000 should be split evenly between Frank (to receive $3,000) and Joe and Mary (to share the other $3,000).

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]
“Beware of those that seek to protect you from harm. The cost will be your freedoms and your liberty.”

 

[CajunCenturion]

Frank gets one half, and Joe and Mary get the other half.

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[SantaMufasa]

Even better !

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]
“Beware of those that seek to protect you from harm. The cost will be your freedoms and your liberty.”