Use 2003 When You Have 2008?

[group6]

Migrating NT4 domain to Windows Server 2003 domain. Also Exchange 5.5 to Exchange 2007E (via exmerge). Have Windows Server 2008E media and licenses, but outside consultant overseeing the migration says we wont actually be using 2008, but will be downgrading to Server 2003 because its 'tried and true' and 'all the bugs haven't been worked out of 2008 yet'. That doesn't sound quite right to me. The only thing I can think of is 2003 is to 2008 as XP is to Vista, XP being more "stable"/less finicky than Vista.

Aside from the fact that 2003 will soon be ramping up to go away-July 2010 it goes from the mainstream support phase to the extended support phase, is there any truth to this or is there really no good reason to use 2003 when we can use 2008?

 

[theravager]

Sounds like you need to find a new consultant to me as yours obviously hasn't updated their skill set for a long time pulling a line like that.

 

[iolair]

I agree. Someone needs to learn the new features of 2008.

 

[group6]

Before I force the issue, can you guys tell me what the differences between 2003 and 2008 are and is 2008 more complex in administration? Remember, Im coming from NT.

simple: 1 domain, 1 site, <150 users, and I do it all.

Thanks!

 

[theravager]

Assuming you probibly won't be using any of the new feature its pretty much identical with just the tools looking a little different and their locations being moved.

Pretty much similar to the difference between xp and vista.

All the AD stuff is exactly the same as its been for a while.

 

[iolair]

Microsoft's defaults on some of the security settings are stricter.

Iolair MacWalter
Network Engineer

 

[58sniper]

2008 is far more flexible with PowerShell and command line administration as well. I'd recommend 2008 all the way. You've got a learning curve regardless of whether you go to 2003 or 2008. Stick with 2008 and find a consultant who's comfortable with it.

Pat Richard MVP
Plan for performance, and capacity takes care of itself. Plan for capacity, and suffer poor performance.

http://www.ucblogs.net/blogs/exchange/

 

[SimonDavies]

First of all you will have to do an NT4 to 2003 in place upgrade, this is to facilitate your Exchange 5.5 to 2007 via Exchange 2003 migration (you can't go straight from Exchange 5.5 to 2007).

You will have to be running in Windows 2003 Interim mode until you have fully migrated your Exchange 5.5 environment to 2003 at which point you can upgrade to Native mode, you will of course have to have migrated all of your BDC's onto AD by that point, you can still have them running on the network, you just need to turn off the netlogon service to stop it responding to logon requests. Once you have migrated all of your BDCs you have no problems going to Native mode and then if you like upgrading to 2008 Native with a Domain and Forest prep to upgrade the schema.

It's not a straight forward migration path, you will have to do a schema update for Exchange when in Interim mode as well.

You would be well advised when doing the work to install a fresh BDC, power off your PDC, promote the new BDC and do the inplace upgrade on that machine (the reason you power off the old PDC is if you have to rollback you power that machine on and force it back to being the PDC, that way you don't lose any thing with regards to site changes etc), next you should install the new 2003 DC's (you want at least 2 and they should have DNS on them because you want to remove the primary AD Integrated DNS server from the first installed DC (old pdc)), move all of the FSMO roles off the freshly promoted PDC, carry out a DNS replication between the first AD DNS server and the new 2003 based DNS server so that once all the services and FSMO rolls are off the first DC you can demote it.

Once you have done AD you will then do the Exchange work, again that's quite a complex piece of work.

Good luck.

Simon

The real world is not about exam scores, it's about ability.

 

[baddos]

If I read the OP correctly he's migrating to exchange 2007 using exmerge so he wouldn't need to upgrade to exchange2003 at all.

You really should go to 2008 though imo. Upgrading everything only to be stuck on 2003 which will be EOL at some point doesn't make sense.

 

[cajuntank]

Unless there is some 3rd party application your company uses that is only supported under a 2003 environment (maybe something your forgot to mention), then I'd go 2008 for sure. I'm replacing the 2003 servers I have right now with 2008 and love it. I will still have to maintain a few 2003 boxes due to application support (and no, not supported as a virtual machine guest, already asked :-( )so thats why I mention about the possibility of application support restrictions.

 

[markdmac]

This almost sounds to me like the consultant is actually turning down work. You can't go directly from NT4 to a 2008 domain, you would need to first go to 2003.

Exchange 5.5 also cannot go directly to 2007.

So no matter how you look at it you need to first migrate to a 2003 domain and Exchange 2003 and then can upgrade to a 2008 domain and Exchange 2007.

In all honesty, I don't think the extra effort is worth it to preserver a WinNT domain.

I'd export mailboxes, setup a new domain with AD and create the same user accounts and computer accounts. Then move the computers over to the new domain (can be scripted). You would need to re-acl all files and folders to ensure proper file ownership. This can all be scripted so it would save you a bunch of time. You would however lose SID history and replying to old email would require GAL lookups.

Server 2008 is solid, it is not buggy so there is no reason not to go to it. The only thing I absolutely hate about 2008 is the new interface for managing IIS. Whomever at Microsoft came up with the Linux like interface needs to be fired, torn into little bits and pieces and buried alive.

You can grab my script for moving PCs to a new domain here: thread329-898919

And check out my script for resetting file permissions at my tech blog

http://www.thespidersparlor.com/blog

I hope you find this post helpful.

Regards,

Mark

Check out my scripting solutions at

http://www.thespidersparlor.com/vbscript

Work SMARTER not HARDER. The Spider's Parlor's Admin Script Pack is a collection of Administrative scripts designed to make IT Administration easier! Save time, get more work done, get the Admin Script Pack.

 

[group6]

markdmac, I think you are on target saying the consultant 'is actually turning down work'. I think its more like 'doesnt want to do the work'. That makes sense if 2008 requires a stop at 2003 on the way, then its easier to just stop there and call it a day.

If I understand correctly, 2008 could easily be the final product if just the user data was moved to a brand new domain? The computers wont know the difference because they will have been wiped and imaged. Preserving the NT domain is in no way important. Over simplified, I only want user files and mailboxes. The rest can go in the bucket. What is involved in re applying access control lists? The subject of replying to old email requiring GAL lookups was broached a long time ago. Does that jive with using exmerge straight to 2007 without the 2003 stop?

 

[58sniper]

Yes. If you exmerge the data out of 5.5, then import it into 2007, you use LegacyDN, which is what's required to reply to emails from coworkers. Users will have to look up recipients in the GAL instead. That's really the only real issue.

The stop at 2003 could be virtualized, since it's short term.

Pat Richard MVP
Plan for performance, and capacity takes care of itself. Plan for capacity, and suffer poor performance.

http://www.ucblogs.net/blogs/exchange/

 

[markdmac]

Depending on the complexity of the file security would in my mind be a major deciding factor. If you only use simple file shares that are locked down to just groups, then you will have little problems with just exporting data and setting up fresh on 2008.

Again, look at the scripts I have provided free on my blog, they can assist with the effort of resetting those permissions. If you script it, it will take longer to copy the data over to 2008 than to fix the permissions. The scripted solution takes minutes to run if you have a lot of data and less if you have less data.

Sounds like you are OK with the limitations of doing the ExMerge. I think this is the better way for you to go.

If you do want to do a migration instead, 58sniper has made a great suggestion about virtualization. You could set up a 2003 server in a VM on a good workstation even running VirtualPC which is free from MS.

I hope you find this post helpful.

Regards,

Mark

Check out my scripting solutions at

http://www.thespidersparlor.com/vbscript

Work SMARTER not HARDER. The Spider's Parlor's Admin Script Pack is a collection of Administrative scripts designed to make IT Administration easier! Save time, get more work done, get the Admin Script Pack.