USB problems with Win 2000

[JChrisCarroll]

I have just had a new motherboard fitted. (QDI KinetiZ 7E with an Athlon 1800XP) I am using Win 2000 Professional and everything worked well immediately except that I am having some problems with USB devices - particularly scanners. I have tried two, a Hewlett Packard 3500c and an Epson 1240U. Both start to scan but then freeze and cause anything else attached to the USB port to freeze also. i.e. the USB port drops out completely and I can only get it back with a hard reset.

I have been through all the updating of drivers etc including the re-loading of the chipset drivers, but without success. The dealer who fitted the motherboard says that I need to re-load Win 2000. I am reluctant to do this because it took me hours to download the Service Packs and the various updates that there have been since.

I notice others have been having similar problems. Is a re-load of Win 2000 the only way? If it is, is there any way of hanging on to the Service Packs and updates without going back to the Microsoft website - are they stored somewhere on my machine in a way that allows re-use?

Any assistance would be appreciated.

 

[Snickle]

A re-install is probably necessary with Win2000 and WinXP. Win9x/ME don't have too big a problem with new hardware but Win2000/XP do get problems with a new motherboard, resources on the board are different from when originally installed.

 

[Wirdo]

Yea supposidly USB never goes bad, just gets corrupted. The only way to fix it is to reinstall.

 

[JChrisCarroll]

Thanks for that - its a horrible thought, but I guess I will have to steel myself and do it.

Does anyone have any advice about the other part of my question? How do I hang on to already downloaded upgrades if I have to re-install Win 2000?

 

[Wirdo]

Unfortunitly no unless you use somthing like norton ghost or another utility like that to make a disk image. That would probly save the service packs and updates.

 

[JChrisCarroll]

I am sorry to have to say this fellahs (not least because I have just wasted two days of my life following your advice)
But reloading Win2000 made not the slightest difference.

I have also uploaded the latest Via drivers (on the advice of the scanner manufacturer) and uploaded a USB filter from Via after reading about USB problems on their website.

I have downloaded a USB checking program, which says that all my USB bits are up-to-date and working perfectly.

None of it helps. The scanner still starts to scan then stops and crashes the whole of my USB system.

I will have one last go at Hewlett Packard and then I think it is "take-it-back" time.

The strange thing is that it still works perfectly from my laptop!

 

[Accessdabbler]

I'm thinking you should update the BIOS for the motherboard. Flashing the BIOS is the scariest thing you can do to a computer but I believe this may be the only thing that will work.

Also, you can download the Win2K service packs and store them on CD. I did. Look here:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/downloads/servicepacks/sp1/

http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/downloads/servicepacks/sp2/

http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/downloads/servicepacks/sp3/

 

[JChrisCarroll]

Thanks. I can understand your comment, but this is a brand new motherboard and chipset purchased and installed last week, which I am assured by my friendly local dealer who installed it, has the latest BIOS installed. Having had a previous one wrecked by a wrongly identified Flash Bios, I am not about to mess with this one.

I figured there must be some way of saving the big downloads from Microsoft, but whenever I go to the Windows (or Office) update site I am never offered any option but to install directly without saving. I would like to save all these downloads, as I do with all my updates etc from other sources, but how do you do it?

 

[DieterKartdesign]

Try to sort out, what causes the problem;

Is it the new hardware or is it the OS;
So if it is possible for you, try to use a different OS (W98 e.g.)
Perhaps your friendly dealer can assist you!

If that works, you know, that the new board and its low-lewel SW is ok;

If that also does not work, you know that you have a problem with the new Main board;
The old one, which you installed did it have Intel or also Athlon?

 

[Accessdabbler]

On another thread, the person was having problems where the computer would restart everytime they tried to plug in a device into a USB port. The problem turned out to be caused by a bad power wall plug.

This may not be your problem but it is worth your while to see if you are having power problems. USB ports usually deliver power to various devices. Your problem could be due to:

1. Power sags - how many devices are being connected to the circuit that your wall outlet is on? For example, do you have a computer, printer, TV, stereo, etc. sharing that circuit? Also, is it possible you have a bad circuit (the other person did - moving the computer solved their problem)?

2. Faulty/weak/low wattage computer power supply. Your power supply should be at least 300W. You may want to test it to be sure it is delivering 12V, 5V and 3.3V.

 

[JChrisCarroll]

Thanks - it is unlikely that I have power problems. My computing bench has a 30 amp ring main with twenty separate outlets and no device is sharing a socket. To check, I ran the PC on an entirely different ring using an extension lead and it made no difference. The PC has a 300 watt power supply and has never shown any signs of distress. Both scanners are self-powered and show no USB current drain in the system diagnostic. I have tried them both directly connected to the PC USB outlet and to two different powered hubs. None of it made any difference.

The OS or hardware dilemma seems a false one to me, since both my scanners were running happily on Win 2000 before the motherboard, chipset and processor were changed.

I know that both scanners work OK because both operate perfectly on my laptop.

I am assured that the BIOS is up to date - I have deleted and reloaded Win2000 and all that depended from it (about 30 hours work) - I have downloaded and installed the latest chipset drivers from Via and the latest USB drivers from Microsoft. I have inserted a USB patch from VIA. I have run the diagnostic program from the USB website and it tells me that my USB system is fully compliant and has no problems (how little they know!).

As for motherboard etc differences: Both motherboards are by QDI - old = Advance 10E; new = KinetiZ 7E. Both chipsets are by Via - old = VT82C686B & VT82C694X; new = VT82C686B & VT8363A.
Processor - old = Intel PentiumIII 733; new = AMD Athlon XP 1800

I must say that I have pretty much given up on this one. I have spent far more time on it already that I wanted to. I am grateful for the interest that my problem has brought, but I am not willing to spend more time pursuing speculative ideas. I have a real life to get back to!

So, I am about to drop the whole boiling back into the lap of the dealer who supplied and fitted motherboard, chipset and processor. In the meantime, I have gone back to using my ancient ScanJet 4C SCSI scanner so as to be able to catch up on my backlog of work.

A Happy New Year everyone.

 

[Hanyawk]

J-
Good Idea, youve covered all your bases. Its time to put it back on the Vendor. They should provide you another Motherboard. Fact is, let them fit it again and load OS and test your scanner personnaly!
The Power Supply lacking would have been my guess as well, USB Mice usually need 40-45 mA to operate correctly on USB, no telling about Scanners (Even powered ones need current too)
Good Luck,Happy New year to You

 

[magistertc]

Hmmm... what other devices and which IRQs are in use?
If you use default HAL they will all report as IRQ9 and the
OS is supposed to sort it out. I would try to remove
and/or disable as many things as possible - sound card,
second USB port, etc. I have had past experience where
a sound card on the same IRQ as something else got confused
and locked up the OS. The only way I know of to 'fix'
the HAL issue is to re-install with Standard PC HAL.
Let us know your results...

 

[whythis]

The problem is not with Win2K and USB (although Win2K WILL give you a lot of problems in this area). The problem is with the VIA chipsets on the motherboard. You WON'T be able to successfully use USB with Win2K with VIA chipsets. Don't beat yourself up trying. I have a PC with this problem. The solution, if you want to use that PC, is to dual boot with 98 OR XP, both of which will be able to access and run your USB scanner, then reboot into 2K after scanning. Hey, it works, even if it's a nuisance. You won't be able to use the USB on 2K with the VIA chipsets on the mainboard, no matter what. Sorry, it's a fact

 

[Accessdabbler]

A fact!! Well, I guess I should throw my system in the garbage then.

Too bad. And all this time my Win2K system with VIA chipset and USB mouse is working perfectly when it shouldn't be. The work of the devil, I say. The devil!!!

 

[JChrisCarroll]

Thanks magistertc - I feel there are things in your post that I should pursue, but I do not understand the issues well enough.

The hardware abstraction layer is beyond my ken and I do not understand the implication of a "re-install with Standard PC HAL". When the vendor who supplied the motherboard etc suggested a re-installation of Win2000 I assumed it was to sort out issues like this. I have done a hard disc format and a clean re-install of Win2000. It was a major task and appeared to achieve nothing. I would not want to do it again in a hurry.

Most of the IRQ's (including IRQ9) are allocated to single "devices". IRQ's 2, 5 and 10 do not appear to be allocated to anything. IRQ 11 has no less than 7 devices allocated as follows: the ACPI system; graphics card; 2 USB controllers; SCSI card; PCI controller for LPT2; sound card.

Two BIOS settings may have relevance, i.e. "Resources controlled by Auto (ESCD)" and "Assign IRQ for USB - Enabled".

If you could help me to a better understanding of these things I would be grateful.

 

[crwpulsar]

whythis,
"Its a fact"???
Im supprised Via, a huge semiconductor device manufacturer would release a product that will not work with USB, the connection type between devices with is replacing all previous types!Would be similar to microsoft releasing a windows without internet ability!!!
Not that I doubt your sources but maybe you can provide a link where VIA admitted that there chipsets WONT work with USB!!!

JChrisCarroll,
i assume you have tried different scanning software, the reason i ask is because I have found that the software provided for scanning can sometimes cause these sort of problems.could be just my system though....


David

 

[JChrisCarroll]

Thanks David - I have not actually tried a wide range of scanning software. The two scanners that I have tried each use different software and both generate exactly the same fault. I have also tried each of them into Pagis Pro and PaperPort and with two pieces of OCR software without success.

The Hewlett Packard 4c SCSI scanner that I am using at present works faultlessly with all these options.

Chris

 

[crwpulsar]

That really only leave the USb host/hub controller on your system. Do you have another/can you get access to another USB device to test or your system. If another USb device will work on the specific ports that the scanner wont then you know it a compatibility issue betwwen scanners and your motherboard/chipset.
If it doesnt work on these two ports or any two then it could be a hub issue.
i noticed in your original post you said "some" USb devices were causing the problems.By any chance are the USb ports your trying to connect the sanners to are ones where jumpers connect the ports to the motherboard via cable, if so make sure the cables connecting go +5V,-Data,+Data,Gnd with the last pin floating(usual configuration)

 

[JChrisCarroll]

Thanks. I have several USB devices - some of which are plugged up permanently (wireless mouse; microsoft keyboard and Palm docking cradle) and some of which I plug in when I need them (card reader for digital photography; card reader for a GPS through a USB to serial converter; Laplink USB cable and a USB hub powered Zip drive). The keyboard and mouse have given no problems other than that they drop out with the rest when I try to run a USB scanner. Most of the other devices I can get to work, though I do seem to get conflicts that did not appear in my old system. The Zip drive is the one that is least reliable. It uses a fair amount of power, which made me think that it might be that the motherboard is not providing sufficient power to the USB system? However, it gives the same problem even if I connect it through a powered hub so maybe not.

The keyboard has two USB outlets and I also have a four port powered USB hub.

There are no cables to the USB ports on the motherboard. They are in box which is surface mounted directly to the motherboard.

Chris