upgrade Hi-Path 4000, Xpressions, Procenter 1

[lhiraman]

Hello everyone. This is just a general question, UNIFY (Siemens) is telling us that we are required to upgrade our HiPath 4000 v5 to V7, our Xpressions voicemail system, and Procenter.

Xpressions and Procenter is running on Windows Server 2003. We would like to upgrade Procenter and Xpressions because we would like to virtualize them, but they are telling us that they can do that without upgrade the hiPath.

The quoted pricing was $$$$$$$$$$$$ HIGH! I was wondering if anyone else is facing this and if so is there a third party that can be used?

Thanks!

 

[sbcsu]

HiPath 4000 V5 is no longer supported, that is why it is being offered as an upgrade to OpenScape 4000 V7

 

[lhiraman]

IS there a third party as an option

 

[donb01]

V7 requires a hardware upgrade because the processors are different, they no longer use the CF/MO for backup and use a second hard disk tray instead, and a few other things. They would probably just build out a whole new CPCI shelf (brain cabinet), take a snapshot of your system, and have everything loaded and ready to go in advance so they can just swap out the brain. Procenter is all the way up to at least V8 (you might be on V7 or V6) and you need to have the latest versions in order to virtualize it decent - Ours is a Windows 2008 VM - again, they would probably build it out and then just migrate your data from the old one. There are a lot of improvements between V5 and V7 including the whole underlying platform is different - everything behind the scenes right now runs on SUSE Linux instead of SCO - SCO went bankrupt and Siemen's kind of got caught with their pants down and had to scramble. Typically they won't support more than 3 versions back, and it was V7 R0.12-ish, then V7 R1.8 and then V7 R1.39 and now V7 R2.x is out. I was told they either already have or will very shortly stop releasing patches for V7 R1.8.x. V5 has been for a while, and even V6 is already no longer supported for updates and fixes. The software migration cycle moves very fast, and if they do find a bug in the system and make a correction they will do it for the now current version, and maybe 2 versions before that. I incorrectly thought - 3 versions - V5, V6 and V7, but was recently corrected on that - the most recent 3 versions of V7 is what is supported for corrections and enhancements!! I don't know Xpressions because I'm using AVST CX-E, which I bought when we knew we had to upgrade and didn't know what we were going to buy yet. It's chock full of features and it is very hardware agnostic - I think it hooks up to practically everything.

Even if it's a 3rd party "garage vendor" that you go looking to for the upgrade they would have to have at least some involvement from Unify - unless they sell you someone else's used system after wiping it and then manually enter in all of your data - I doubt anyone else on the planet would support it after that scenario if the chosen vendor disappears.... You should also note that if you upgrade your system to the lastest and then don't keep the software up to date - if you want to make any changes to it they will require you to play catch-up to the latest supported version before doing anything. Unify was one of the last manufacturers to finally yield to the trend of forcing you to at least have a minimal service contract for software updates on your system - everyone else in the market doesn't even really "warranty" much anymore - they make you buy a service contract that will cover you from Day 1. We got a full year warranty on our upgrade.

Don Bruechert, Voice Comm Analyst II
CareTech Solutions @ Holy Family Memorial
Manitowoc, WI, USA

 

[LoPath]

Yeah, we're in the same boat. I have a 4000 V5 and V6 they want to upgrade to V7. The V6 is still supported, so I'm not in a big hurry. The V5 is still supported, but if you ever want to add anything to the system, they'll tell you that an upgrade is required. It sounds like an aggressive marketing scheme to me, but it does kinda make sense. It's just annoying that they started this push after our 2016 budget was already completed.

LoPath
Maintain HiPath 4000 V5 & V6, OpenScape Xpert V4, Xpressions, Contact Center

 

[lhiraman]

LoPath, it is tough getting this approved, they are asking if we cant use someone else because the cost is so high. It is almost what we paid new!

I have some meeting with vendors later this week to see other options. Personally, I like their product line, it has been solid, but again everything comes down to money.

 

[donb01]

Just make sure whatever vendor you choose is an official Unify vendor that has access to their software updates and tech support and they're not just grey marketing the equipment. Unify requires a software assurance contract on all systems now - I believe it is based on cost per port, to keep the systems up to date. If you do not have that contract they will not let your vendor contact them on your behalf either. All the other manufacturers have already been doing this for years.

I don't know who you use now, but we have been using Black Box (formerly Norstan Communications) since 1984 and we have very few problems. They are fully manufacturer certified in just about every major platform out there. You have to remember if thinking about switching brands that you already have a sizable investment in IP phones, etc, and unless you have all SIP that is all going to have to be replaced if you switch products! That was what made the difference for us - we already had a big chunk of the 4000 platform in place from a previous partial upgrade and we were able to use all that equipment and didn't have to re-purchase all new product.

Don Bruechert, Voice Comm Analyst II
CareTech Solutions @ Holy Family Memorial
Manitowoc, WI, USA

 

[lhiraman]

Donb,

Currently we use Siemens (UNIFY) directly for our support. Their pricing is high, they fish everything out to ARROWSI.

 

[donb01]

I'm not doing a sales pitch here, just saying how I'm doing it.... We get everything from Black Box Network Services. They have the highest partner rating for Unify sales & support, along with very high ratings for Cisco and Avaya - probably some others. I have a maintenance contract with them called "parts plus" which covers the cost of replacement (non-expendable) parts, and any corrections they can do remotely. They also do remote monitoring, so if the system sends out an SOS they will check it before they get me out of bed and if they can deal with it remotely I won't even know unless I review the closed tickets. Otherwise I'm the first line - I'm about as fully self-supporting as Unify allows me to be, so I will take care of anything I can, and if I can't fix it, and they can't fix it remotely then I pay a discounted labor rate for them to roll a tech. Unify now requires all customers to have a "software assurance" contract so you have access to the latest versions of everything, and your support group has access to their TAC center. It souds like you already have something above that. My cost on that part is about $45K for about 3000 ports (one 4K and 6 APEs covering 7 remote AP shelves, 900 OpenStage, some Optiset for backup, and about 460 Analog), plus ProCenter V8, Full DLS deployment and Web Collaboration. The Black Box contract adds on a little less than that, and they also manage all the contracts for all my other add-ons (Impact Traffic Analyst, Amcom E911, PhoneGuideLive, Interalia iMCM and networked iProMOH, AVST CX-E with all the fixin's, and RightFax). They do a good job for me with the whole tab running about $150K a year for all that.

Don Bruechert, Voice Comm Analyst II
CareTech Solutions @ Holy Family Memorial
Manitowoc, WI, USA