Updated site - Critique please? 4

[johnwm]

Hi guys
I've just re-visited

http://www.essexsteam.co.uk

and changed the looks a bit. There is also quite a bit of new functionality. I would appreciate your thoughts on the site, both visually and functionally. You can register for access to the bigger image galleries. If you start your name with xx I will delete it from the database in about a week. I have left a user name of j with a password of j available for critiquing if you don't want to register.

I look forward to your comments (I have set my defensive shields to maximum!)

________________________________________________________________
If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first

'If we're supposed to work in Hex, why have we only got A fingers?'

http://www.essexsteam.co.uk

for steam enthusiasts

 

[BillyRayPreachersSon]

Remove the <script> tags in your JS file which cause JavaScript errors to appear (or in my case, pop up annoying boxes), and it'd be a whole lot better )

Dan



The answers you get are only as good as the information you give!

 

[johnwm]

Sorry about that! That's me with my clumsy cut&paste again!

Please try again, and thanks for the comment

________________________________________________________________
If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first

'If we're supposed to work in Hex, why have we only got A fingers?'

http://www.essexsteam.co.uk

for steam enthusiasts

 

[BillyRayPreachersSon]

They're still there (I completely cleaned my browser cache before testing).

You need to totally remove the following lines from your JS file:

//-->
</script>
<script language="JavaScript" type="text/JavaScript">
<!--

Hope this helps,
Dan


The answers you get are only as good as the information you give!

 

[johnwm]

Sorry - I rushed it and missed! Should be OK now (double checked on server)

________________________________________________________________
If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first

'If we're supposed to work in Hex, why have we only got A fingers?'

http://www.essexsteam.co.uk

for steam enthusiasts

 

[glenmac]

Your contact page need work. The form is covered by the links div. IE 6

Glen

http://lantzvillecomputers.ca

 

[CliveC]

1. pages do not validate (google stuff I think)
2. design does not work at 800*600 the floating image makes the window unecessarily wide.
3. Layout breaks down when text size is changed.
4. Top bar looks hokie and letters float off it when text size changes.
5. Left menu looks like the base of a table lamp. Most design books recommend avoilding centering and having a clean edge.
6. whole menu does not show at 800*600. This also renders pointless the mouseover stuff. Which IMO is pointless anyway.
7. It seems that most of the javascript is unecessary and why put a js backbutton on some pages and not others. I would get rid of them all.
8. On the links page, leedsdistrict links does not work. hrefs should have closing "/"
9. I was able to register and hence login with anything. In fact I used "s" in each field.
10. You could improve your googlability with the word steamroller and UK in the page title.
11. Spark arrestor page has wrong title.
12. Don't see the point of javascript mailto when you have asp.
13. Animation is cute but spoils layout of home page

Hope that helps!
Didn't check spelling

Clive

http://tubularity.com

http://PalliativeCareConsulting.org

 

[johnwm]

Glen,
Thank you - I had overlooked the fact that IE does not understand 'min-height'. Now fixed

Clive,
Thank you for your detailed comments.

1. pages do not validate (google stuff I think) - Agreed- I have removed it for the time being

2. design does not work at 800*600 the floating image makes the window unecessarily wide. - Agreed - but not my target audience
3. Layout breaks down when text size is changed. - see above
4. Top bar looks hokie and letters float off it when text size changes. - see above
5. Left menu looks like the base of a table lamp. Most design books recommend avoilding centering and having a clean edge. - I'm still thinking about that!
6. whole menu does not show at 800*600. This also renders pointless the mouseover stuff. Which IMO is pointless anyway. - see above
7. It seems that most of the javascript is unecessary and why put a js backbutton on some pages and not others. I would get rid of them all. - I'm still undecided as the functionality on different pages is intended to be different
8. On the links page, leedsdistrict links does not work. hrefs should have closing "/" - leeds is now gone (these voluntary sites seem to come and go very frequently. My understanding on the closing / is that it belongs to the a and not the href (at least it validates OK)
9. I was able to register and hence login with anything. In fact I used "s" in each field. - This action is deliberate
10. You could improve your googlability with the word steamroller and UK in the page title. - steamroller as one word has the wrong connotations for a steam site
11. Spark arrestor page has wrong title. - Thank you - fixed
12. Don't see the point of javascript mailto when you have asp. - The bottom mailto is WIP at present
13. Animation is cute but spoils layout of home page - picture layout is dynamic and will change on a regular basis

________________________________________________________________
If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first

'If we're supposed to work in Hex, why have we only got A fingers?'

http://www.essexsteam.co.uk

for steam enthusiasts

 

[ChrisHunt]

not my target audience

I'm intrigued - who is your target audience? My impression is that the appeal of steam engines is not limited to the young. Older people often have older PCs (which can mean smaller screen sizes), and may need to boost the size of text on the page. Heck, I find the body text a little too small and I'm still in my 30's.

Clive's picked the bones out of the technical side, I can't add much. The links on the side menu jump a little to the left when you mouseover them (in FF at least), and I think you should either highlight both borders or neither of them - it looks odd just changing the right one on hover.

On the subject of the menu, there doesn't seem to be much order to it at the moment, and some of the options don't make sense without some context. I suggest going to a two-level menu something like this:

Home
About Us
Steam Days
Our Engines
-- Wallis & Steevens
-- Aveling & Porter
Services
-- Engineering
-- Foundry
Shop
-- Flue Brushes
-- Spark Arresters
Members' Area
-- Protected Page 1
-- Protected Page 2
-- ... etc ...
Links
Find Us
Contact Us

You could use some kind of fly-out or drop-down approach to display the second tier of options, or have the sub options display when a main option is selected (I do this on my own site). Actually, you could diplay the whole tree as I have above - there aren't an unmanageable number of options (yet).

Note that the "Home" option is where it belongs - at the top! I've also added an "About Us" page - who/what is Essex Steam? Are you a company or a band of amateur enthusiasts? Or maybe somewhere between the two? When were you formed? Those are all questions you can deal with on an About page.

I wouldn't put the Login or Register page on the menu, the login page should appear when the visitor tries to visit a page in the Members' Area, the register page should be reachable from the login page. Frankly, I don't really see the point of hiding content from Google behind a registration requirement. You don't appear to be making any money from registrations, so why do it? I'd just have a mailing list that people could sign up for, and free up access to the site.

-- Chris Hunt
Webmaster & Tragedian
Extra Connections Ltd

 

[johnwm]

Chris,
Thank you for your valued comments.

Target audience is well-to-do of all ages - steam activity is fairly expensive! My client is looking for customers happy to spend £200 to £500 per day. Most of the older people I know have modern high-spec machines with nice displays, while the lower spec machines I'm seeing are used by students and other low-income groups. Looks like we're seeing over 85% hits from XP users, so I'm happy that we're hitting the right area.

I agree about some aspects of the menu order, but I will stay with a single level menu at present, and try and persuade client that we should have a menu in the same order as everyone else. He is keen that the login process will be visible and present 'membership' and 'exclusivity' as key attributes of the site. Maybe I can achieve both by moving Login/Register to the bottom of the menu and opening more to non-members (and the bots).

Point well taken re: About Us - I will rectify!

________________________________________________________________
If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first

'If we're supposed to work in Hex, why have we only got A fingers?'

Essex Steam UK for steam enthusiasts

 

[CliveC]

Forgot to mention: CSS does not validate.

This link validates links and explains the ending "/" issue:

http://validator.w3.org/checklink

re: your comments to Chris:
just because people have modern machines does not mean that they browse in full screen.

Clive

http://tubularity.com

http://PalliativeCareConsulting.org

 

[johnwm]

Thanks again Clive,
I found the "/" issue - it was an incorrect path! Thanks also for the LinkCheck link - that's a new and useful one for me.

________________________________________________________________
If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first

'If we're supposed to work in Hex, why have we only got A fingers?'

Essex Steam UK for steam enthusiasts

 

[johnwm]

The CSS question was a good test for me, Clive!
At last I've tracked down the validation mystery. The HTML validator sees this:

<div id="logo"align="right"><a href="[URL unfurl="true"]http://www.essexsteam.co.uk"[/URL]
title="Go to main page." ><img src="images\logonew.jpg"border="0"alt="Home"/></a></div>

as valid -but the CSS validator complains if there is no space between " and align (etc).

This however works for both CSS validator and HTML validator:

<div id="logo" align="right"><a href="[URL unfurl="true"]http://www.essexsteam.co.uk"[/URL] title="Go to main page." ><img src="images\logonew.jpg" border="0" alt="Home"/></a></div>

Note spaces before align, border and alt

Which is correct, or are both OK? Any idea why the different validators give different results?

Chris, I've got a compromise on the menu layout which will (I hope) satisfy all.

Thanks again for all your help - the site seems to be getting quite a lot of hits, and quite a few people signed up. The site alone has produced more actual business than all of last years' bookings from all sources!

The site remains Work-In-Progress, so any further comments on design are welcome. I will shortly raise an SEO question in the SEO forum re this site

________________________________________________________________
If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first

'If we're supposed to work in Hex, why have we only got A fingers?'

Essex Steam UK for steam enthusiasts