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UK speak? 1
- Thread starter Dimandja
- Start date
My suggestions:
"He has played a major role in Chelsea's first Premiership titlefor [red]in[/red] 50 years."
"He has agreed [red]to[/red] a three-year deal."
Tracy Dryden
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons,
For you are crunchy, and good with mustard.![[dragon]](/data/assets/smilies/dragon.gif "[dragon] [dragon]")
"He has played a major role in Chelsea's first Premiership title
"He has agreed [red]to[/red] a three-year deal."
Tracy Dryden
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons,
For you are crunchy, and good with mustard.
Looks like another case of 'Two countries divided by a single language'
In English English both examples are normal usage.
Agreeing a deal has connotations of negotiation, whereas agreeing to a deal merely shows acceptance.
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In English English both examples are normal usage.
Agreeing a deal has connotations of negotiation, whereas agreeing to a deal merely shows acceptance.
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If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first
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1
- #4
earthandfire
Programmer
johnwm said:
johnwm, I don't mean to be pedantic, but I don't agree.
In English both examples are normal usage.
Whereas in American (or other English), their meanings may be unclear.
SantaMufasa
Technical User
Earth,
I believe there is a good case for the designation "British English", "American English", "Canadian English", et cetera, which are dialects with distinct usages and pronunciations that are acceptable amongst their respective linguistic scholars. To declare that any one of the dialects is more correct than another is asking for an endless argument, much in the same vein as arguing whether Cantonese or Mandarin is "the correct" version of Chinese.
![[santa]](/data/assets/smilies/santa.gif "[santa] [santa]")
Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
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I believe there is a good case for the designation "British English", "American English", "Canadian English", et cetera, which are dialects with distinct usages and pronunciations that are acceptable amongst their respective linguistic scholars. To declare that any one of the dialects is more correct than another is asking for an endless argument, much in the same vein as arguing whether Cantonese or Mandarin is "the correct" version of Chinese.
Mufasa(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
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Then click here to join Utah Oracle Users Group on Tek-Tips.
GlenJohnson
MIS
Unless of course your speaking Tek-English, which most of the world will never understand. That being said, Dave makes a good argument. People ask me what's better, a laptop or a desktop. What's the awnser? Who knows?
Glen A. Johnson
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Glen A. Johnson
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earthandfire
Programmer
SantaMufasa, one doesn't say:
French French to differentiate between the language spoken in France and the other French variants spoken elsewhere (for example Canada).
Spanish Spanish, Portuguese Portuguese and so on.
English is the language spoken in England. Variants should be identified as such where it is necessary to avoid confusion. Where the term or expression refers to that spoken in England there should be no need for qualification.
A similar situation should occur with spelling - as an example:
English - colour
American English - color
On the subject of spelling, when I started program[m?]ing in Delphi I was constantly getting compile time errors because I was trying to set values for ForeColour and BackColour.
French French to differentiate between the language spoken in France and the other French variants spoken elsewhere (for example Canada).
Spanish Spanish, Portuguese Portuguese and so on.
English is the language spoken in England. Variants should be identified as such where it is necessary to avoid confusion. Where the term or expression refers to that spoken in England there should be no need for qualification.
A similar situation should occur with spelling - as an example:
English - colour
American English - color
On the subject of spelling, when I started program[m?]ing in Delphi I was constantly getting compile time errors because I was trying to set values for ForeColour and BackColour.
GlenJohnson
MIS
I believe the point was you can't compare what is correct in America or England. You're talking apples and oranges. What is correct in one country may not be in another. Because of this, some qualifications must be made.
Glen A. Johnson
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Glen A. Johnson
To get the best answers to your questions, check out faq950-5848
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earthandfire
Programmer
I agree one hundred percent. It is necessary to qualify when usage (whether spoken or otherwise) is different, hence identifying the variations that are not English as being American English or Australian English et cetera.
My argument basically is that whilst within the United States of America, Americans may refer to their langugage as English but when using their language internationally they should qualify the variation. Unqualified, English should refer to the language spoken by the English.
Roy, you seem to be getting around a fair bit tonight![[wink]](/data/assets/smilies/wink.gif "[wink] [wink]")
My argument basically is that whilst within the United States of America, Americans may refer to their langugage as English but when using their language internationally they should qualify the variation. Unqualified, English should refer to the language spoken by the English.
Roy, you seem to be getting around a fair bit tonight
SantaMufasa
Technical User
Earth, I could not determine for sure, but are you suggesting that French is French, Spanish is Spanish, and Protugese is Portugese, regardless of location? If so, I waaaay beg to differ...Mexicanos y Salvadoreños y Cubanos do not speak Castillano (Spanish Spanish); Brasillanos certainly do not speak Portugese Portuguese; Creole and Cajun are French but they are cetainly not French French. In fact, when you install Oracle, the installer supports many of the above regional dialects by name including "Brazilian Portugese" and "American".
Mufasa(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
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earthandfire
Programmer
SantaMufasa, that was exactly my point:
Portuguese is the language of Portugal, Brazilian Portuguese is the language of Brazil.
Portuguese is the language of Portugal, Brazilian Portuguese is the language of Brazil.
Dave (aka Santa),
I didn't interpret Earth's post the way you have. It seems to me what Earth is saying is that the name for the language spoken in the 'original root country' (ie: France; England) should attract the 'root' language name (England = English; France = French; Spain = Spanish; Germany = German) and that any countries/regions that have susbequently adopted these languages, or where they have extended to, should specify their 'region' for clarification. (Earth, feel free to contradict me if I've got it wrong.)
I am not making any comment on the validity of this argument (from a 'roots' point of view) but would ask, if we are trying to remove doubt, why start with an assumption? Most people will gravitate to their 'home country' when interpreting a language description (for me, British English, incidentally), whatever the origins of a given language are. If there is doubt, to my mind, let us be explicit.
Having said all that, this is probably an unfair hijack of this thread. Therefore, my two-pen'orth:
and,
Tony
___________________________________________________
Reckless words pierce like a sword,
but the tongue of the wise brings healing (Solomon)
I didn't interpret Earth's post the way you have. It seems to me what Earth is saying is that the name for the language spoken in the 'original root country' (ie: France; England) should attract the 'root' language name (England = English; France = French; Spain = Spanish; Germany = German) and that any countries/regions that have susbequently adopted these languages, or where they have extended to, should specify their 'region' for clarification. (Earth, feel free to contradict me if I've got it wrong.)
I am not making any comment on the validity of this argument (from a 'roots' point of view) but would ask, if we are trying to remove doubt, why start with an assumption? Most people will gravitate to their 'home country' when interpreting a language description (for me, British English, incidentally), whatever the origins of a given language are. If there is doubt, to my mind, let us be explicit.
Having said all that, this is probably an unfair hijack of this thread. Therefore, my two-pen'orth:
I would possibly re-state this as:Dimanja said:
Code:
[b]He has played a major role in [COLOR=red]Chelsea achieving their[/color] first Premiership title for 50 years.[/b]as:Dimandja said:
Code:
[b]He [COLOR=red]and the club[/color] have agreed a three-year deal.[/b]Tony
___________________________________________________
Reckless words pierce like a sword,
but the tongue of the wise brings healing (Solomon)
earthandfire
Programmer
Firstly, I would reiterate from my original reply: "I don't mean to be pedantic"
UniqueFD, your interpretation was spot on!
There aren't many things that get me angry, however, the frequency with which English these days seems to default to the American variant does. Documentation and manuals for US produced software for example (I know as an IT professional I shouldn't read them![[smile]](/data/assets/smilies/smile.gif "[smile] [smile]")
), are often translated into foreign languages, but never into English.
If in such a manual there are details on changing the colour of some text, the French version would use couleur (I think) when describing the objective and ForeColor as the property. The version of the manual provided for use in the UK would use color and ForeColor.
UniqueFD, your interpretation was spot on!
There aren't many things that get me angry, however, the frequency with which English these days seems to default to the American variant does. Documentation and manuals for US produced software for example (I know as an IT professional I shouldn't read them
), are often translated into foreign languages, but never into English.If in such a manual there are details on changing the colour of some text, the French version would use couleur (I think) when describing the objective and ForeColor as the property. The version of the manual provided for use in the UK would use color and ForeColor.
Why bother stating that you don't mean to be pedantic then?
Why do people bother to say they don't mean to be something they are obviously more than willing to be?
My favorite is, "I don't mean to argue, but..."
"I don't mean to point out the obvious, but...
Why do people bother to say they don't mean to be something they are obviously more than willing to be?
My favorite is, "I don't mean to argue, but..."
"I don't mean to point out the obvious, but...
earthandfire
Programmer
Thadeus, I don't know. Possibly a vain attempt to minimise (or should it be mimimize?) any offence that may otherwise be caused.
I have been told that a substantial proportion of our communication is solely intended to 'manage other people's perceptions' of us (particularly in conversation - body language, the words we use, inflection, etc.) Can't find any reference or stat's to quote, unfortunately, but having heard this, I began to notice everyone - including me - doing it!
Putting the shoe on the other foot, if you had spent time, effort and energy writing documentation for something (as an Englishman), would you then consider 'adapting' it into American-English, when Americans can perfectly well understand what was meant? To me, that would be a folly.
BTW, you're obviously proud of being English; can't fault that - so am I!
Tony
___________________________________________________
Reckless words pierce like a sword,
but the tongue of the wise brings healing (Solomon)
My view on this - It is the writer's prerogative to give instructions in their language and if they, out of courtesy, provide them in other languages, great. So, if an American creates the article, s/he is at liberty to use American-English in their documentation. The logical solution must be to get us 'Brits' manufacturing/writing/publishing manuals in our own right; then, if this is still an issue, we can always buy British!!!Earth said:
Putting the shoe on the other foot, if you had spent time, effort and energy writing documentation for something (as an Englishman), would you then consider 'adapting' it into American-English, when Americans can perfectly well understand what was meant? To me, that would be a folly.
BTW, you're obviously proud of being English; can't fault that - so am I!
Tony
___________________________________________________
Reckless words pierce like a sword,
but the tongue of the wise brings healing (Solomon)
earthandfire
Programmer
UniqueFD, I did. Many years ago the company I was then working for produced a DOS program. The documentation was then sent out to be translated into Freench, German, Spanish AND American English. The American version was actually printed on 11" x 8.5" paper.
Earth,
in that case, my hat off to you! (not that I'm actually wearing one, but you know what I mean...;-))
Incidentally, any thoughts on the original post in this thread?
Tony
___________________________________________________
Reckless words pierce like a sword,
but the tongue of the wise brings healing (Solomon)
in that case, my hat off to you! (not that I'm actually wearing one, but you know what I mean...;-))
Incidentally, any thoughts on the original post in this thread?
Tony
___________________________________________________
Reckless words pierce like a sword,
but the tongue of the wise brings healing (Solomon)
earthandfire
Programmer
UniqueFD, amusingly it was johnwm (who would appear to be from the UK) who forced me onto my ![[soapbox]](/data/assets/smilies/soapbox.gif "[soapbox] [soapbox]")
. I agree with him that both are normal and acceptable English. Equally, as always, there are alternative, if not better ways of expressing something.
In English (all its variants) there are many for want of a better word contractions. thread1256-891235 and thread1256-1052610 are a couple of threads that come to mind where this has been discussed.
Your expansions of both expressions are obviously correct, but as long as the original phrases are used in the correct context their meaning should be readily apparent.
. I agree with him that both are normal and acceptable English. Equally, as always, there are alternative, if not better ways of expressing something.In English (all its variants) there are many for want of a better word contractions. thread1256-891235 and thread1256-1052610 are a couple of threads that come to mind where this has been discussed.
Your expansions of both expressions are obviously correct, but as long as the original phrases are used in the correct context their meaning should be readily apparent.
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