Travel Premium 2

[CasperTFG]

Want to get thoughts or opinions on this.

I do a lot of travel for my company (6 trips a year @ 2 weeks per trip). Recently my work has asked if I would be willing to Travel to Saudi Arabia. 3 of my co-workers have declined the trip, so the company is a little stuck.

Personally I would rather not, it's not the safest place in the world right now. But I could be persuaded to go if the money was right.

Currently we get $90 USD per day for travel outside of the country. That money is meant to cover meals, taxi's and etc.

What I want to know is, would it be right or OK for me to ask for a premium to take this trip?

thoughts?

Casper

There is room for all of gods creatures, "Right Beside the Mashed Potatoes".

 

[tonykent]

Personally, it would take some pretty strong incentive to make me willing to go to a place where I might die. $90/day would certainly not be it.

More important than a sum of money that would make it worth my while going, if I had any dependants I would be looking for the company to take out some signficant additional insurance cover to provide for my family in the event of anything bad happening.

 

[chiph]

The additional life insurance policy paid for by the company idea is a good one.

Chip H.


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[Thadeus]

Tony, you took the words out of my mouth.

Business travel insurance won't do you much good if you should happen to check out, but the amount your company provides for you ought to reflect years of your salary...

And I think that you are not out of line asking for a much higher premium...

 

[CasperTFG]

Thanks for the Tip on the Travel Insurance... So far I have the Following "Rules" or requests written down that are going to be the condition of my going.

That the Company not extend the trip length.

It is a very long flight to Saudi, I am going to request that I either Travel Business class, or that I arrive 1 day prior to a working day start. i.e. Arrive Thursday start work Saturday.

Now I will add that they should pay for extra travel insurance

I still have to figure out what my premium for this trip should be though? Any thoughts.

I also want to know the companies stance on hostage payouts... Are they willing to meet demands to ensure my saftey.

Casper

There is room for all of gods creatures, "Right Beside the Mashed Potatoes".

 

[MDXer]

If it was me the additional life insurance would be a must, change the 90 a day to 90 an hour then we might have something. A big factor would also be what part of the country, and what are the security conditions. Another unmentioned part would be additional vacation time like an additional week you could use half way through where you could meet family or loved ones someplace in europe or a week off at the end of the project.

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[CasperTFG]

I have been to Saudi Before... Not a bad place to visit overall... But yes there is the new threat of terrorism...

That threat is actually the lowest it has been for 2 years. The US Has a do not travel advisory for US Citizens to Saudi, but Canada only has a warning of risk...


Casper

There is room for all of gods creatures, "Right Beside the Mashed Potatoes".

 

[kHz]

The location within Saudi Arabia would be paramount. However, regardless of your housing situation, there isn’t any guarantee of your safety. Another question would be travel within the country: how far each day; where to each day; travel to and from airport, etc.

Why are your coworkers refusing to go? Have they gone before?

Be sure you check out the US State Department travel advisories before you go and while you are there.

http://www.state.gov/travel/

Register with the US Embassy when you do arrive in-country.

Although you probably would not encounter any problems given the number of foreigners who live and work there, and there haven't been any attacks against foreigners lately, all of that can change at any time. For me the reward would not out-weigh the risk: $90 dollars a day would NOT be enough for me to go over there!

 

[CasperTFG]

The Travel would be in Riyadh. The US Closed their Riyadh embassy recently as there is a stand off with suspected terrorist in a building very close to the Embassy. I however am from Canada. So the risks are a little less as we have no armed forces in Afghanastan which is what most kindappers have been concerned with. The Canadian Consulate only has a warning to caution for saftey and their Embassy is still open.

My co-workers are refusing because they have built themselves up... or so I beleive. None of them have been before so that is also a factor. My mother is Muslim (though I am athiest), so it seems a little easier for me to handle I think.

So the question stills tands, HOW MUCH should I get or ask for?

Casper

There is room for all of gods creatures, "Right Beside the Mashed Potatoes".

 

[SF0751]

Is the company you work for Canadian or American? This could also make a difference in terms of risk.

I would ask for both first-class travel AND arriving one day early, to help overcome jet-lag (Saudia Arabia is 8 hours ahead of the Central Time Zone). Excellent thought on the additional insurance.

I would ask for 15-25% additional pay per day (including travel time). You might also want to ask for the amount to be post-tax.

Susan
"'I wish life was not so short,' he thought. 'Languages take such a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about.'"
- J. R. R. Tolkien, The Lost Road

 

[Thadeus]

Casper,
The problem I have with providing a number is that you haven't provided enough info...

- Is this a billable project for a client or in-house work?

- Can the added expense be added to a client bill? or will it be seen as an extra-ordinary* expense?

- Is a human presence absolutely necessary?

- How many people could be asked after you or are you the "end of the line" for the company?

- Will making additional demands sour your career within the company?

- How were you approached since you were not the company's first choice? Did they sound willing to negotiate?

- Did others already make higher demands (eg. "I want $90/hour") or did they just say "no"

- Any family would be upset if something happened to you (lethal or not), but do you have people dependant on you?

- Do you want to go or do you feel obligated? or does this look like an opportunity to make some extra bucks?

These are only a few of the questions that I think someone would need to know before offering any realistic dollar amount. Anything else is like playing "let's make a deal" (ie. you can keep the $100 or take what's behind door number 1) Knowing what's behind door number 1 is requisite to providing an informed answer.

~Thadeus

 

[CasperTFG]

To Answer your questions... see below in blue.

- Is this a billable project for a client or in-house work?
Non-Billable unless it is found that the problems are the customers fault. So it is really a support call.

- Can the added expense be added to a client bill? or will it be seen as an extra-ordinary* expense?
Extra Expense.

- Is a human presence absolutely necessary?
Customer is Demanding it.

- How many people could be asked after you or are you the "end of the line" for the company?
There are 3 people within the knowledge range able to go on the trip, I am the Middle qualified.
The most qulaified is our lead developer who is not going for religious reasons.
The lease qualified is not going as he is not a happy camper, pretty sure he is looking for a new job.

- Will making additional demands sour your career within the company?
Yes and No. If I was rediculous and held them at hostage then yes, though my going would save them, a very large customer as well as the influence that customer has on the middle east region.

- How were you approached since you were not the company's first choice? Did they sound willing to negotiate?
I was the first choice, though everyone was asked when I said I would have to think about it.

- Did others already make higher demands (eg. "I want $90/hour") or did they just say "no"
Just said No

- Any family would be upset if something happened to you (lethal or not), but do you have people dependant on you?
Yes, we are a family of 3

- Do you want to go or do you feel obligated? or does this look like an opportunity to make some extra bucks?
I would rather not go on any trips, though I am really strapped for $$$ so willing to take the trip. I feel less obligated as I really have no care for the company anymore... Back in the day they could ask staff for things like this and the answer would almost always be yes. However after 2 buyouts the company now has to threaten employees to get anything


These are only a few of the questions that I think someone would need to know before offering any realistic dollar amount. Anything else is like playing "let's make a deal" (ie. you can keep the $100 or take what's behind door number 1) Knowing what's behind door number 1 is requisite to providing an informed answer.

~Thadeus


Casper

There is room for all of gods creatures, "Right Beside the Mashed Potatoes".

 

[CasperTFG]

It should also go to say that If all of us refuse they will be forced to hire an outside company (Partner/distributer). Get one of their employees trainned up on the product, then send him there and hope for the best. That would also entail a larger expense for them to pay a contracted employee to do the work.


Casper

There is room for all of gods creatures, "Right Beside the Mashed Potatoes".

 

[Thadeus]

Well given your answers and the fact that you are a Canadian citizen, I would say that all of your other demands are in line with the risk.

- Not extend the trip length
- a day early or first class
- extra travel insurance

As far as a premium above the per diem already offered, I would ask for a debit or giftcard (VISA, AMEX, etc) that I could use while there. I guess I would ask for an amount equivalent to an added $100 per day... So a 12 day trip ought to have $1200 available on the card. Not a daily amount, but a lump sum. If you don't use it, it's yours, but if you need it, it's better to have it available on the trip as opposed to waiting in your next pay check.

Also, I would try to go with a debit-style card because the company or your family can always add to it from home in the event of an extreme emergency.

BTW, you may already have a Corporate Credit Card for travelling... I would ask for the debit-style in addition to a credit-type. Like I said, the amount on the debit ought to be yours to keep in the event you don't need it while travelling.

This may not be what you are looking for, but it's what I would ask.

~Thadeus

 

[Stella740pl]

Casper, I assume, these $90 per day are in addition to your regular salary or hourly rate, not instead, right?

 

[CasperTFG]

Yes this is on top of... I already have a Company Credit Card for those emergencies... I am thinking that I should ask for Double the $90, so $180 USD per day for taking the risk.

Casper

There is room for all of gods creatures, "Right Beside the Mashed Potatoes".

 

[rosieb]

Caspar

I used to travel extensively for a publishing company, from UK.

As I see it there are four issues:

1. The flights - if you are travelling from US or Canada to Saudi, it should be business class. We had a basic rule of thumb that anything over 5 hours => business class. It's not just the flight time, it's also the check-in times. For a long flight, I would expect to get at least a day to recover from jet lag - for me a trip to Australia would mean arrive Friday, start work on Monday.

2. The per diem - for me that was "unlimited", I would expect to be able to buy a decent meal (nothing fancy, but not too basic) and charge taxis, etc at the local rates (with receipts, if available). If that was $20 or if it was $150 - it varied according to local costs.

You will be in Saudi, so will need to eat in an international (ie safe) hotel - the cost is whatever the cost is. Ditto for taxis, you take a taxi recommended by your hotel - NOT the cheapest you can get. Your personal safety is paramount. To me $90 per day seems way inadequate for Saudi (though I'm out of touch) - ask for "whatever it costs".

3. Additional life insurance - a good point raised above, under the current circumstances, a must. Ditto hostage payments.

4. Compensation for travel to an unpleasant place - you can't enjoy your "free" time. You may work for 8 hours a day, assume you sleep for 8 hours - that leaves 8 hours.
You cannot do the things you would normally do, you will probably be stuck inside a hotel room. At the very least you should get your normal hourly rate x1.5.

In addition to all this, they need someone to go, no-one wants to go - so what bonus are they prepared to offer?

My suggestion would be to say that you do not want to go, but that you realise they need someone there, and given the above - what are they prepared to offer?

Rosie
"Never express yourself more clearly than you think" (Niels Bohr)

 

[BJCooperIT]

Will you need to hire an interpreter?

A taxi seems rather risky. Can you hire a private driver?

When travelling in India, bribes tips are the norm to even get through customs. Does anyone know if that is true in Saudi Arabia too?

Will you have to foot the bill for any medical care?
Bet they do not take Blue Cross/Blue shield. [WINK]

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[MDXer]

I'm not sure I would rely upon the your Canadian and not American as any means of safety. Simple fact you are a westerner and in many places that is all that people look at. As usal Rosie adds some valid points about what life will be like so the compensation should be billable hours the time you are there working or not.

As for the hostage payments not sure that this is an issue giving the part of the world you will be going to. Hostages in the middle east typically aren't taking for monetary gain but rather in hopes of securing freedom of prisoners or to just make a statement, besides not sure how many companies would take this out on people below executive.

The added life insurance should be of a value to ensure that your family is secured for a number of years without concern as-well-as having enough to providing an education for any children. Financial people say 3 years annual salary plus overhead to cover cost of living I would ask something like Life insurance paid for by the company in the amount of 5 years salary. If you have a wife and kids the last thing they should have to worry about if something happened is what they are going to do about the house the bills college etc.

I know most of this thread has focused on the negatives and the what-ifs but the reality is that part of the world isn't exactly a friendly place at this moment in time.

Shoot Me! Shoot Me NOW!!!
- Daffy Duck

 

[CasperTFG]

I've actually decided to decline the trip.

My wife made me think back to the last business trips where I came home ready to throw a resignation letter at my boss. Not due to the trip, but more due to the treatment I received by my own company while on site.

The last trip the customer wanted to extend my stay for "hand holding". I told my company that I could not as I had a baptism rehearsal for my child (something they knew about even before I left). They threatened me while on site to make me stay longer.

So thinking of that made me realize, they really don't give a flying poop about me, so why should I risk myself to help them.

Thanks for all your help and suggestions though, I am sure this thread will be helpfull for others thinking of travelling where no man should go.

Casper

There is room for all of gods creatures, "Right Beside the Mashed Potatoes".