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Transform Problem

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waynesworld

Technical User
Feb 1, 2002
58
US
I am using Photoshop 6.0 in a Mac platform, OS 9.2. Some of my work calls for me to edit images--for example, fronts of houses--where I can edit one side and then just do a copy/flip horizontal for the other side. I am working in Image Mode>Indexed Color, 8 Bits/Channel. The problem is is that I have to resort to Free Transform since Transform>Flip Horizontal is not available--it's grayed out. The only way it can work is if I go into RGB Mode which is unacceptable since it doesn't conform with the color table of only 21 colors I am limited to. Any way to get this to work in Indexed Color mode?

Wayne
 
I do not see the Horizontal Flip greyed out while in Index mode. It should be useable. Are you using 8-bit color I assume? Any other details on the file or color format? Have you tried converting it to RGB and then back to Indexed?
 
Thanks for your response. I again tried to do Horizontal Flip while in Index mode but it won't let me. Athough it's an additional step, it looks like I can go into RGB mode, do a marquee selection, copy, paste (thus creating a new layer unlike in Index) and then flip that, than go back to Index (which prompts me to flatten it). This is better than having to guess how much to drag out a Free Transform selection to make it the same width as the pre-flipped side.

I haven't done work with this client in like 3 years. I didn't seem to have this problem before (when I worked in Photoshop 3.0) Yeah, I'm using 8 bit color. The file is pics of houses and such scanned and laid out in an aliased mode. It needs to get extensive cleaning up using mostly the pencil tool--very basic stuff. It evenually becomes a commemorative woven coverlet or afghan. The color table is limited to 21 colors which I load into the swatches palette.

Wayne
 
Remember in photoshop 5.5 and above, if the image you're working on is the background layer, you have to duplicate that layer to do any type of Transformation to it. Always make changes to duplicate layers if you're working on an original image otherwise, copy and paste the image to a new document.
 
WizyWyg,

That is a big help and sounds like it will solve my problem.

Thanks to you both!

Wayne
 
Hope you get it figured out!

WizyWyg, not sure if I have a special version of PS, but there is no need to create a duplicate layer in mine. Even with a flattened and locked bg layer in Indexed mode I can perform flips. I just do a ctrl+a to select the entire layer and then I can do whatever I need to to it, with of course limits on effects in index mode. But no restrictions on transforms.
 
WizyWyg,

I tried to make a duplicate layer (in the layers palette of course) while in Index mode but it was greyed out. I guess the key is to work on it as an RGB, flattening layers after any transformations and then when completed to change to Indexed Color mode.

Wayne
 
Spcs - I dont know, but I've been using PS since 3.0 and I never transform when its a background layer. Its locked. USING the Ctrl + A never gurantees your transformation will be correct.

Wayne - yes you have to change it to RGB mode, which is why INDEXex color is not really an "editable" mode to begin with. i creat all my graphics in RGB or edit them in rGB mode and then save out to INDEXED mode when Im done.
 
WizyWyg,
Thanks--last question then just out of curiosity. Why when in Index mode does Free Transform work (for example flip), but not Transform?

Wayne
 
Im not too sure, but its been that way since Adobe 3.0 (which was where I started off)

 
I don't know man. I can use a multi-layer document, flatten it, index it and flip, or I can create a new document, fill it with a gradient and switch to index with 21 colors and force black and white, never touched the original layer. Its still named background and locked. I can do a selection or a ctrl+A and then any sort of flip. Maybe I have magic software.
 
No, once you add a layer to an indexed image, PS reverts to as if working in RGB mode. Dont ask me why, but when I used to edit layers in Indexed, I never had a problem. The key is to always make a new layer.

We are talking about normal transformations, not SELECTING all in order to make it transform. If you have to make a selection in order to transform anything (scale, rotate, skew, perspective, etc) its not behaving like a normal psd document. More of htese answers can actually be found at Adobe's Support forums and have been discussed endlessly.
 
Sorry if for some reason you don't wish to discuss this, but I am really intrigued here...I still am not sure what you mean and I would like to understand this limitation that I don't see so far. You say we are talking about NORMAL transformations and not SELECTING transforms...I don't see what you mean here. Don't you HAVE to select something to transform?

Plus if you look at his ORIGINAL message he states he is doing a copy/flip horizontal. To copy you have to select, right? I created a new image, immediately converted to indexed 21 colors, made a brush stroke, selected half the image, and then did a flip horizontal to get the other half, and then moved it in place for a final, mirored image. Isn't that exactly what he is saying does not work? If I am wrong, lease clarify exactly what steps you are taking to come across this grayed out option.
 
If you people are interested, I could send you the image that I'm talking about--it's a Photoshop tif file--596k. You'll see these buildings that I've cleaned up including about 3 that I was able to flip one side to make the other side (and then just change a couple of sun shadow lines). To me there's no way it can be done in Index although I do recall I could do that in 3.0.

I just tried it again--first in Indexed by making a selection with the marquee tool and dragging out a copy with the move tool (option/shift), then cutting and pasting: flip not available. Then the same procedure in RGB: flip works. I'm not sure if the colors are affected worling in either RGB all the way and then converting to Indexed at the end or converting back and forth after each transformation...I'll give it whirl.

Wayne
 
Spec, its not like I DONT want to discuss, Im just saying that its been discussed to death at the Adobe Forums. If you want to get into the technical aspects of Photoshop, pose your theory about transformations there.

For me, I work with what I know and what has worked for me since PS 3.0 (PS 4.0 was a god send IMO). Indexed images cannot be flipped. Which is the problem he had. Transformation on other aspects do work. Flipping doesn't.

Anyway, he did what he needed and it got done.
 
I'd love to see the image and give it a try. I am obviously out of the loop on this one:) I don't really have a need to discuss deep technical issues of it, didn't mean to sound rude either. Just curious is all.

you can email me the image at chrisa@specsys.org
 
Not to belabor this, but I am doing the same work, now in Photoshop 7.0 instead of 6.0 (on a Mac in OS 9.2) and I am finding that the Flip Horizontal (or Vertical) Transform DOES work in INDEXED mode! It does not even create a layer like in RGB mode...very interesting.

Waynesworld
 
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