To Database or Not to Database That is the ? 1

[imeldesign]

I have a client who wants to put his product catalog online. He has 25 categories of building supplies. Each category has various sizes. The largest category is 300 items. But the total number of items is around 1,000. He does NOT plan on selling the items online. He is not a wholesaler but a contractor.
Although I have build databases (not web based) in the past I think it is the way to go.
He has everything in an excel spreadsheet including a link to the image.
What would you recommend as an approach? I am on a mac but his host is godaddy so php/mysql is an option. They support Navicat for database management which looks like an option for importing the excel data.
Basically it will look like a catalog/shopping cart with prices but they can't "shop online".
My other option would be to just build it as an html page with small thumbnails that would be clickable to an larger image. Tedious but there would be few changes in product mostly additions and very few deletions.
Mostly looking for opinions on which way to go.

 

[mmerlinn]

[ ] 
One possible way would to write a program to extract the data from the database and generate the HTML pages. When the database changes, then regenerate the pages and upload.

That is what I did with my database. The program I wrote keeps the database updated. When I need to regenerate the pages and upload, I just tell the program to do it. Regeneration and uploading is accomplished at the rate of 1400 pages per hour, a whole lot faster and far more efficient than doing it any other way, not to say anything about never having to worry about broken links.



mmerlinn

http://mmerlinn.com

"We've found by experience that people who are careless and sloppy writers are usually also careless and sloppy at thinking and coding. Answering questions for careless and sloppy thinkers is not rewarding." - Eric Steven Raymond

 

[audiopro]

a whole lot faster and far more efficient than doing it any other way

Or have a server side application create your pages on the fly from a single uploaded file as most E-commerce site do.

Keith

http://www.studiosoft.co.uk

 

[imeldesign]

Both good ideas. Since the database won't change that often and even then it will be a few additions (one or two at a time). Since I am more of a front end person the SSI idea sounds more of a fit to me. Nearly all my sites are done in Dreamweaver using div's and css. I generally create a design in Photoshop, create my graphics, then build a template for the website in Dreamweaver. I've played with SSI but only little things nothing on this scale.
The only section that needs to be generated is the products section.
I hate to sound dumb but what kind of single uploaded file?

 

[audiopro]

It would depend on what your server side script can decode the best. You will also have to upload the product images too but that is a simple FTP job.

Keith

http://www.studiosoft.co.uk

 

[imeldesign]

Thanks I think I am definitely on the right track...my host is ixwebhosting and they can pretty much handle most any script.
At this point the client has not put the images into excel but will if I ask him to.

Can you point me in the right direction as far as a sript goes?

 

[audiopro]

Keep the images out of Excel!
For the number of images you require, store them on the server in a single directory. This makes it easier to update the images. Name the images the same as the product code to make your admin easier.
ie.
- Item Desc - Small green plastic thing
- Stock Code - SP67463
- Image Name - SP67463.jpg

With regard to a script to handle it, there are a number of shopping cart type apps out there which will do the job but I have no in depth knowledge of any of them.
I prefer to write my own so that any additional facilities can be easily added.

Keith

http://www.studiosoft.co.uk

 

[imeldesign]

Images out of excel - that was my choice as well.
I did think of a shopping cart app but not one using ssi...most require php/mysql and although I started learning all about it, it got pushed to the side as "real" work came in.
Thanks again...now I know I can do this site without pulling my hair out.

 

[mmerlinn]

a whole lot faster and far more efficient than doing it any other way

Or have a server side application create your pages on the fly from a single uploaded file as most E-commerce site do.

There is at least one problem with creating the pages on the fly - The search engines have a hard time indexing them.

mmerlinn

http://mmerlinn.com

"We've found by experience that people who are careless and sloppy writers are usually also careless and sloppy at thinking and coding. Answering questions for careless and sloppy thinkers is not rewarding." - Eric Steven Raymond

 

[audiopro]

There is at least one problem with creating the pages on the fly

That may have been a problem many years ago but if the pages are created correctly search engines have no problem indexing them.

Using this method for a product site makes searching for items or related groups of items much simpler than having to trawl through hundreds maybe thousands of pages. There is also less overhead on the server too, as you are storing a lot less data.

Keith

http://www.studiosoft.co.uk

 

[imeldesign]

I was just reading up on that and found

http://www.liamdelahunty.com/tips/search_engines_read_php.php

sounds like I can use ssi and still have the site searchable by engines.

If I go this way what type of file will I be pulling from? Do I import the excel into MySql or make it some other type of simple database?

Talked to the client also and all images have the same name as the profile of each product.

 

[BillyRayPreachersSon]

There is at least one problem with creating the pages on the fly - The search engines have a hard time indexing them.

Problem? There's no problem at all. There are millions, if not billions of websites that user dynamically created pages (e.g. using ASP, JSP, PHP, etc) and probably a huge percentage of those have great SE coverage.

Search engines simply index the content they see presented to them on the front-end of a website... they care not how the pages are built.

Dan


Coedit Limited - Delivering standards compliant, accessible web solutions

Dan's Page [blue]@[/blue] Code Couch:

http://www.codecouch.com/dan/

Code Couch Tech Snippets & Info:

http://www.codecouch.com/

 

[mmerlinn]

Ok.

I did a lot of testing of my hardcoded HTML pages against a competitor's ASPX pages.

As noted by others, everything is well indexed regardless of page type on both sites.

The ONLY difference I could find is that my pages were ALWAYS higher in the results regardless of whether I used the format "mmerlinn|xxx searchterm", "xxx|mmerlinn searchterm", "searchterm mmerlinn|xxx", or "searchterm xxx|mmerlinn" in the Google search box.

That does not make sense to me, but I am very happy that my pages trump the pages of a company with over 20 warehouses nationwide.

mmerlinn

http://mmerlinn.com

"We've found by experience that people who are careless and sloppy writers are usually also careless and sloppy at thinking and coding. Answering questions for careless and sloppy thinkers is not rewarding." - Eric Steven Raymond

 

[imeldesign]

That is good to know...I've learned a lot in the past two days about database driven sites...it is on my agenda to learn and has been for a while. Unfortunately, paying jobs take precedence over that and I have been non-stop busy since being laid off from my "real" job in November.
My client will be sending me a small part of his excel spreadsheet and the images that go with them so I can begin setting the database up.
I am still not sure what to charge for this site. I will be sending him a quote later today.

 

[audiopro]

mmerlinn|xxx searchterm

If you include 'mmerlinn' in your search term, of course you are going to be higher in the rankings than your competitors.

Show us a bare search term which finds your website.


Keith

http://www.studiosoft.co.uk

 

[mmerlinn]

mmerlinn|xxx searchterm

If you include 'mmerlinn' in your search term, of course you are going to be higher in the rankings than your competitors.

Show us a bare search term which finds your website.

I don't see how you figure that just because I use "mmerlinn|xxx" that that will always put me on top. "xxx|mmerlinn" also puts me on top even though "mmerlinn" is now after "xxx".

Here are four different google searches all producing the same results with me at the top every time.

14040514 wit|mmerlinn
14040514 mmerlinn|wit
wit|mmerlinn 14040514
mmerlinn|wit 14040514

I did hundreds of similar searches. As long as the search term was somewhere on my website, my website was ALWAYS higher than wit's website.

Using ONLY the search term "14040514" the results put my pages at #3 and #5 on the FIRST page. Wit's page is #4 on the ELEVENTH page, or at rank #104. Similar searches consistently produce the similar results.

Since most people never go past page three of the search results, the #104 position is basically worthless in generating sales for my competitor.

If you do a search with "14040514 transmission" I am now at #1 and #3. Wit is now at #4 right behind me. Still good positioning for me relative to wit. Now wit can siphon some sales from me.

mmerlinn

http://mmerlinn.com

"We've found by experience that people who are careless and sloppy writers are usually also careless and sloppy at thinking and coding. Answering questions for careless and sloppy thinkers is not rewarding." - Eric Steven Raymond

 

[audiopro]

Search for 14040514 mmerlinn - puts your site higher than them

Search for 14040514 wit - puts their site higher than yours.
I would expect this as your website name is mentioned in the search term.

Search for 14040514 and your site is higher than theirs but this has nothing to do with how the page was created.
The search term appears several times on the target page and is not buried away in the middle of a complicated description like theirs is.

Your experiments are have no logical basis making your static/dynamic page argument pure guesswork.
Neither website has been optimised anywhere near to full SEO and both sites are missing a vital complex search option which allows visitors to find the exact part they are looking for with the minimum of information.

I assume you deal with mostly trade customers who have the manuals and therefore access to the exact part number.


Keith

http://www.studiosoft.co.uk

 

[feherke]

Hi

Searching for "14040514" on the wittrans site using their own search tool gives no result. Are you sure "14040514" is relevant keyword to demonstrate anything ? I have a feeling that most of the potential customers will search for something more common, like transmission mmerlin OR wittrans or 350C mmerlin OR wittrans.

( The above is just theory. I have no idea what those sites are talking about. )

Feherke.

http://free.rootshell.be/~feherke/

 

[audiopro]

Only people in the know would search for a part number anyway.
Both sites are missing out on the amateur mechanic's market but maybe they are more bother than they are worth.

A bit like amateur web designers perhaps?

Keith

http://www.studiosoft.co.uk

 

[johnwm]

@Keith - Harsh but true!

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