TN767 or TN464 which one 4 ISDN PRI - confused? 4

[piken]

My project consists of linking our G3 to a voip gateway we're working on via ISDN PRI and voip users having access to G3's users ext's and outbound calling and vise versus.

voip gateway PRI switch capatibility
Line-side/trunk-side interface
Q.931/Q.921, AT&T 4ESS, DMS 100, Lucent 5E, Network or CPE,
NI2. Feature Group D, E&M Wink, A-Law,Mu-Law & Linear
Groundstart(FXO/FXS) w/ opt. Disc. supervision.

Our current system
G3si - Software G3V6i
We currently use a TN767E V8 ISDN PRI w/FAS

and I want to use message oriented common channel signaling
between the two and since my expertise is limited, (willing to learn thou)I'm trying to implement the SIMPLIST method.

So I start reading before I put out the cash for
and additional circuit pack and just about everything
I read says the TN767E cannot be used for ISDN PRI D channel (unless you have TN555, which we don't) and that you would need to use TN464C.

The TN767 we're using DOES have the D channel on it and we're not using a TN555.

Ok, so with more reading it seems that depending on
what versions of software/rev you're using one can use TN767.

Does this make sense to anyone, just want to try to confirm
that I can use either TN767 or TN464. It appears that the TN767 can be had at a lesser price then the TN464.
And also if it matters what rev. the TN767 is, ie.
"E" or greater and V8 or greater, etc. or would it just
be simpler to get a TN464 and move on.

Any thoughts would be great.

TIA

 

[4merAvaya]

In a G3si you can use a TN767 for ISDN-PRI as long as a Processor Interface port (TN765) is used to terminate the 'D' channel. In a MCC (refrigerator) you can have (2) PI boards (4 ports each). In the SCC cabinets (stackable) you can only have (1) PI board. You can also do ISDN-PRI using a feature called PACCON. It must be enabled on the customer-options screen (ISDN-PRI over PACCON), you need a Packet Bus card (TN778) and you must use TN464 boards for the facility. If you use PACCON, all of your existing ISDN-PRI circuits must use it. You may have to replace any TN767 boards used for ISDN with TN464s.

Kevin

 

[piken]

Ok, now I don't feel too dumb, the choices seem endless.

ISDN-PRI over PACCON "n"

Looking through my config, I see my cur. installed TN767 is using the TN765 and the TN765 has two ports available.

So, if I'm reading this rite, I can go with either TN767 or TN464.

Just if I use the TN767, I need to use a Proc. channel/interface link.

Does the TN464 need to use a Proc. port?

It's starting to sound like it's simpler to just get
a TN464?

 

[lopes1211]

On the g3i without paccon, you'll need a PI port to terminate the D channel either way. There is no benefit 464 vs 767 (unless/until the pbx is upgraded to a later release).

-CL

 

[piken]

Dammmm, let me see if I'm getting this yet....

The TN767 communicates over the TDM bus.

The TN464 communicates over the packet bus (paccon)
So without paccon, the TN464 would would also have to communicate over the TDM bus, eerrr, correct?

Thus the "no benefit" 464 vs 767.

The only other thing I've dug up is that the TN464 has echo cancelling. Is this to say the TN767 doesn't?

Now I'm starting to shift back to the TN767, unless what I read about echo canceling is true.

 

[lopes1211]

The newest 464"GP" has cancelling if you have a PBX software version and RTU to support the cancelling. If you keep talking, it will only get more confusing. I think it was R10 that first offerred the optional RTU feature to enable the echo cancelling capability of the newer 464GP boards. Once again, this will not enhance anything on an R6i.

-CL

 

[CaNNaBiS]

Can someone be a little more specific about how to use the TN767E to use with a PRI?

I have a TN765 PI with 4 ports available in slot 01A.

The TN767E is in slot 01C12.

I built the trunk already and assigned 23 channels to it.

I created the DS1 as well.

So I guess the trick is the signalling group? Do I just need to change the signaling group to use 01A01 instead of 01C1224? Since the PI will be the signalling channel can I utilize 01C1224 or do I just not program it in anywhere?

Any help would be great, I have a scheduled turn up at 10:30am in the 'morn...didnt realize this was going to be a problem.

MultiVantage, Intuity Audix LX

 

[mikeydidit]

On the first PRI you install, you need to use the 464. You set up the 24th channel as the D-signaling channel. The 767 is what I add to the exsiting trunk groups. This is how mine are set up.


SIGNALING GROUP

Group Number: 1 Group Type: isdn-pri
Associated Signaling? n Max number of NCA TSC: 0
Primary D-Channel: 01D2024 Max number of CA TSC: 0
Secondary D-Channel: 04D2024 Trunk Group for NCA TSC:
Trunk Group for Channel Selection: 5 X-Mobility/Wireless Type: NONE
Supplementary Service Protocol: a

Trunk Brd Interface ID Trunk Brd Interface ID
1: 02D15 2 11:
2: 02D04 3 12:
3: 02D05 4 13:
4: 02D16 5 14:
5: 04D17 7 15:
6: 01C20 6 16:
7: 01D20 0 17:
8: 04D20 1 18:
9: 03C09 8 19:
10: 03D09 9

Mike Jones
LSUHSC

 

[piken]

ah, this is why, this is so gosh darn confusing!

No, you don't have to have a 464 for your first PRI.

I have only one ISDN-PRI in my system and I'm using
a 767, but it requires/uses a port on the 765 to create your ISDN PRI link.

 

[CaNNaBiS]

Piken, I feel your pain.

I got so many different answers from so many different people I ended up just sending my TN767 back and ordering a TN464.

Some say you have to use PRI Over PACCON, and if you enable that, you have to do it with all your PRI's and so on.

So just to keep my work simple I just went with another TN464.

MultiVantage, Intuity Audix LX

 

[mike144]

All depends version of switch. both cards work 464 or 767E

If you have a V6 or below two ways of hooking up.
1)need PRI turned on in switch and have a PI card, have to build data mode, comprocessor channel and link, DS1, sig group, trunk group.

2)need PRI turned on in switch have a TN778, build DS1, sig group and trunk group.

above a V6 one way
1)have PRI turned on, build DS1, sig group, trunk group.

 

[mike144]

took for granted everyone nows option 2 with
TN778 only work with TN790,TN777B,TN2182

 

[mikeydidit]

I am thinking this may be a G3R/G3I differance.

Mike Jones
LSUHSC

 

[mike144]

above is I

In R add DS1, Sig group, trunk group

 

[indyjon]

Does this thread need more interesting confusion? I recently started with a company that has 2 G3Si V4 and a Cisco Avvid.

The PRI between one of the G3Si and the vg200 gateway is sometimes flaky. I am wondering if my predecessor even set this up correctly. This Deinfity-VG200 Gateway PRI is a TN464F. Can the 464F even be used with V4 to do PRI? The sig group has "associated signaling" stroked to Y. PRI is enabled on cust options. PRI over Paccon is NOT enabled.

Can someone square me away one this?

 

[4merAvaya]

You have to add a data module with a type of 'procr-intf' and a non-DID extension number. Assign the data module to a physical channel (01 to 04).

Do a 'change communications-interface links' to add the information for the ISDN board. Use the same physical channel as assigned to the data module.
Enable = n
Est Conn = y
PI Ext = Data mod created above
PROT = ISDN
Brd = TN767 slot
Identification = Whatever

Do a 'change communications-interface processor-channels' and add an entry:
Appl = ISDN
Link = same as assigned to the data module
Channel = blank
Priority = h

Do a 'add or change signaling-group x.
Associated Signaling = y for Facility Associated Signaling
n for non-facility associated signaling
Primary D channel - 767 slot, port 24
Trunk Group = ?

Go back to the 'change communications-interface links' form and enable the link that you are using.

Give it a few minutes to sync up and then do a 'status signaling-group x'. You should see the primary as 'in-service'

Kevin

 

[dteal]

When I try to change communications-interface links I get the error message: 'ISDN-PRI is not supported over PI links'

G3si version 6
I have 5 TN464 installed fine and I'm trying install TN767. I also have a TN765 card.

Please advise.

 

[4merAvaya]

Does your switch have ISDN over PACCON enabled on the Customer Options screen? If yes, you have to use TN464 boards along with the Packet Bus (TN778).

Kevin

 

[dteal]

Yes, it does? What exactly is ISDN over PACCON.

I have a location on version 6 that does not have it and they have TN767e's.

Avaya was trying to tell me that TN767's are not supported on version 6.

Thanks.

 

[schned99]

TN767s use the TDM bus for D-channel signalling. The TN464 uses the packet bus for D-channel signaling. Both require a Processor Interface channel. On the TN464, the data module provides the packet interface to the processor over the PI channel.

If you need more than 4 D-channels (8 on a G3R), you need to add the TN778 Packet Control Interface and add the RTU for ISDN over PACCON. When this is activated, D-channels can only be utilized over the packet bus (up to 30), requiring all TN767s that need D-channels to be replaced. However, if you are using Non-Facility Associated Signalling, you can still use the TN767 to support B-channels in a trunk group that gets it's D-channel from a TN464.

For systems without ISDN over PACCON, you can used either a TN767 or TN464 for ISDN-PRI. You will use one Processor Communication Link for each D-channel. The TN765 provides 4 Comm Link channels. You assign the Comm Link through the data module form on proc-inter type data mod.

Hope that helps and doesn't add to the confusion.

Statements expressed in this post are my own opinions and should not be considered as the opinion of my employer.